Islysian

Illyrian Ilieski
Spoken in:	Illyria
Timeline/Universe:	Modern timeline Alternate Earth
Total speakers:	~10 million
Writing system:	Modified Latin alphabet
Genealogical classification:	Indo-European  Illyrian
Basic word order:	SOV
Morphological type:	Inflecting
Morphosyntactic alignment:	Nominative-Accusative
Conlang details
Conlang type:	Fictional language
Inspirations:	Baltic & Finnic languages
Lexicon size:	>1000
Created by:
Cody Jaeger	2006

Iterekisna - Introduction

Ir ilieski kieli - The Illyrian language

The Illyrian language is spoken by nearly all of Illyria's population of ~10 million; by small ethnic-Illyrian communities in neighbouring countries such as Sweden, Finland, Poland, and the Baltic Rim; and by small emigrant communities in the Anglophone countries.

The Illyrian language is considered an Indo-European isolate. Much loaned vocabulary can be traced to Finnic, Baltic, Germanic, Slavic, and even Romance languages--for example, "poike" boy from Finnish and Swedish; "arbat" tea from Lithuanian; "kamping" from English; and "dešöné" lunch from French.

There are several dialects of Illyrian. While they are all mutually intelligible (except, perhaps, among the very elderly, who tend to retain antiquidated forms of speech), this article will focus on the spoken form of the Western Illyrian (Vísilieski) dialect. This dialect, originating in the metropolitan areas surrounding the Tälia Sound, is the most widespread dialect, spoken by approximately 60% of the Illyrian-speaking population.

Ilieska jau hanet valstilait - Illyria and its people

The Illyrian people have lived in their homeland for thousands of years, seemingly locked in constant struggle for recognition and independence. Since that sovereignty was recognised in 1907, the Illyrians have been a peaceful people driven more by the desire to better themselves than by the desire to defend themselves. The small kingdom put forth only a minimal effort during the First World War and remained neutral during the Second, after which it was the only Central European nation to successfully remain outside the Iron Curtain. Today Illyria consistently ranks among the best-developed countries in the world.

Illyria is seen by many as a crossroads of Europe, connecting east with west, north with south. It is geographically Baltic, culturally Scandinavian, and historically it has jumped back and forth between Central and Northern European. It counts among its people not only those of the Illyrian ethnicity, but also those of Polish, Baltic, Russian, and Nordic backgrounds, thanks to Illyria's often-shifting historical borders. In the last century, Illyria became a haven for wealthy and intellectual Africans fleeing the imperialist "scramble for Africa," and today the country boasts one of the most affluent ethnic African populations in the world--among them the widely-loved Chancellor Isobel Nikoli, who traces her ancestry back to Cameroon. Most immigrants adopted the Illyrian culture as their own, including the unique Illyrian tongue. It is thanks to this fact that Illyria is blessed with a more or less complete lack of the ethnic and racial tensions that so often plague such diverse societies.

Religious life in Illyria is equally diverse. The most popular denomination is the Church of Illyria, a Protestant sect which models its structure and beliefs on those set forth by Martin Luther. Also found throughout the country are Orthodox and Catholic churches, as well as mosques, synagogues, Buddhist and Hindu temples, various small Wiccan and Neopagan communities, and centres for Atheist thought.

Illyrian society is very egalitarian, values concensus above all else, and is generally socially liberal and progressive. The economy is a mixture of free-market capitalism with socialistic ideals and limitations, state-run enterprises, and a comprehensive welfare state, resulting in a system similar to the "Swedish model." Typical of such quasi-socialist societies, Illyrians pay massive amounts of taxes but recieve wide varieties of benefits, such as free healthcare/medicine, retirement, and higher education. Further government programs exist to help young (university-age), elderly, disabled or otherwise unlucky citizens to find and afford decent housing, food, and even cars. Still other tax dollars go to building and maintaining some of the best-kept infrastructure in Europe.

Lantevaidaslys - Phonology

Sonesai - Vowels

a - /a/
á - /ɑ/
ä - /ɛ:/
e - /ɛ/
é - /e:/
i - /i/
í - /i:/
o - /ɔ/
ó - /o:/
ö - /œ/
u -/y/
ú - /u/
y - /ɪ/

Pronunciation of certain consonants, such as J, change depending on which vowel they precede. For these purposes, Illyrian vowels are grouped into "hard" and "soft" sets.

• The hard vowels are: a, á, o, ó, ú.
  
• The soft vowels are: ä, i, í, e, é, ö, u, y.

An accute accent marks a vowel as long. Acute-accented vowels are not considered separate letters of the alphabet; ä and ö, however, are.

Divisonesai - Diphthongs

Diphthongs in Illyrian are as follows:

ai - /ai/
au - /au/
ei - /ɛi/
eu - /ɛu/
ia - /i.a/
ie - /i.ɛ/
iu - /i.y/
oi - /ɔi/
ou - /u:/ - an historical relic, this diphthong is merely the word-final realisation of ú.
ui - /ɥi/
uo - /uɔ/

All diphthongs are pronounced with a grave accent on the second vowel.

Soklasinet - Consonants

b - /b/
d - /d/
f - /f/
g - /g/ before a hard vowel or finally; /ʝ/ before a soft vowel
h - /h/
j - /j/ before a hard vowel or finally; /ʝ/ before a soft vowel
k - /k/, palatised /kʲ/ before a soft vowel or finally
l - /l/, apical, as in Italian, French, etc.
m - /m/
n - /n/ pronounced dentally; /ŋ/ before K
p - /p/ always aspirated
r - /r/ before a vowel or finally; /ʁ/ before a consonant (except H and J)
s - /s/
š - /∫/
t - /t/ always aspirated
þ - /θ/
v - /ʋ/ by most Western Illyrian-speakers, but most other dialects realise as /v/ (both are acceptable)
z - /z/

Doubled consonants indicate extended length, which varies greatly between dialects. In Western Illyrian, the length of a doubled consonant should be slightly shorter than the "N" sound in English "pen-knife"

Sanalantaslysti mainai - Pronunciation changes

Pronunciation changes in Illyrian are relatively rare and mostly regular.

Very common clauses sometimes feature internal elision or contraction. For example, the relative clause "saka za" that, which is in everyday speech rendered as ['saksa].

An unstressed "I" before an approximant is lenited to /ɪ/, such as the first letter of the word "ilieski" itself.

More informally, an initial unstressed "E" is often elided: this is most often heard in the case of the demonstrative pronoun "eta" this/it (is), which is very commonly elided to 'ta, particularly by children. In extreme cases, sentences such as "eta enka erda en ejou eli illa?" is this narrow table sufficient or not? may be heard as tankardan júlilla? However, it would not be likely to hear someone speaking in such an exaggerated manner except for effect.

In some cases, if the mutation becomes widespread enough it may enter the standard form of the language: for example, "siarkesli," good evening is a morphologised contraction of "sia irkesli."

Skeutasti rakoini - Syllable structure

Illyrian syllable structure is basically (C)V(C). Clusters of up to three consonants are allowed initially. Every syllable must have an acceptable vowel sound, ie. structures such as Czech "prvni" first, which uses "r" as a semi-vowel, would not be allowed in Illyrian. Final consonant clusters are not allowed, however in recent years, it seems this rule has been blurred when adopting loan words--in particular "ir week-end."

Kursa ilieskiai - Writing in Illyrian

Ir alfabet - The alphabet

Illyrian is written with a modified Latin alphabet. The first written text in Illyrian was the Code of Laws of Prince Iliem II, written in the 1340s. However, the missionaries who introduced writing failed to create an orthography specially designed for the language, which is apparent by the wide spelling variations of the period: Ä was interchangeable with E, and Ö with U. /∫/ was variously written as SZ, SJ, SCH, CH, and CJ. K and C were interchangeable, as were V and W. Above all, it seemed that every writer came up with his own realisation of /θ/.

Illyrian spelling was finally standardised by King Andiri IV in 1573. His reform is basically what is in use today. Andiri, a scholar of languages, imported the thorn (Illyrian letter þa) from England and the S-caron (Illyrian letter še) from Bohemia. The phoneme /ç/ is today written with a digraph due to the fact that, at the time of Andiri's reform, /ç/ was not considered a distinct phoneme but rather a palatisation of <h>.

The modern Illyrian alphabet has 26 letters: 8 vowels and 18 consonants. Collation order is as follows:

A Ä B D E F G H I J K L M N O Ö P R S Š T Þ U V Y Z

Vilainon kursatyllet - Non-native letters

The following letters are not considered part of the Illyrian alphabet as they do not occur naturally in the Illyrian language. They are only found in loan words, foreign names, and technical jargon (eg, "www.")

c - /k/ before a hard vowel or finally; /ts/ before a soft vowel
q - /k/
w - /v/ or /ʋ/
x - /ks/ before a hard vowel or finally; /∫/ before a soft vowel

Divikursuret - Digraphs

Besides the diphthongs described in the section on Phonology, the only digraph in the modern Illyrian orthography is <hj>, which is pronounced /ç/. It most frequently occurs word-initially, and is almost never found word-finally except in a few colloquialisms, such as "yhj" [ɪç] - which is equivalent to either "ouch!" or "oy vey!"

Kiesai kursajöruret - Alternate realisations

In situations (eg. typewriters, keyboard, www addresses, etc) in which typing Illyrian letters such as Še and Þa (the thorn) would be difficult or impossible the following realisations are acceptable:

ä - ay
ö - oy
š - sj
þ - tj

Digraphs are not considered separate letters of the Illyrian alphabet. In alternate realisations, however, the two letters are treated as though they were the proper Illyrian monograph: eg. "tjaysti" (þästi) often would nominally be sorted after, for example, "tyrsi" dry.

Suresaslys jau akronimet - Capitalisation and acronyms

Capitalisation is absolutely regular. Only the first letter of a sentence and the first letter of a proper noun are capitalised. Adjectives and common nouns derived from proper nouns are not capitalised.

Ilieska Illyria

ilieski Illyrian (adjective, or the Illyrian language)

ilieskalainen an Illyrian person

Acronyms are written with the capitalised first letter of each component word, and any following letters from the same word are lowercase. There is no punctuation between letters of an acronym. Acronyms which are themselves loan terms are not usually translated.

ITv (Ilieskai Televizia, Illyrian Television)

IK (Idinörju Karjanen, United Kingdom)

UNProFor (UNPROFOR, United Nations Protection Force)

Kursahaftaslys - Punctuation

Formatting for full stops, commas, colons, exclamation/question marks, etc. is the same as in English--that is, no space after the preceding word.

Inverted commas are used to show emphasis of strength which, in speech, would be indicated by the speaker's tone of voice.

Illa, ja vardu saka za 'Kören' médo iše. No, I said KÖREN likes honey.

Outward-pointing double angle quotes (with internal spacing) indicate speech. No comma is used to offset quotes. If the quotation includes the end of a sentence, the full stop goes inside the quotes, otherwise they go outside.

Se vardun « siras iši. » You said, "I like cheese."

Isse « kóté jau kiené jau tréšou » irsu. He saw "cats and dogs and a rabbit."

However, for ongoing dialogue, such as in narrative storytelling (which is always written in the present tense), em-dashes are preferred. To show the cutoff point of the dialogue where the sentence does not end, a colon is used.
—Saka? ja roti. "What?" I ask.
—Ö, ja vardu saka za ruosti skolliksi ida : isse varde. "Uh, I said I have to go to school," he says.

Indentation is not used in written Illyrian, except for nesting lists. Double-spacing indicates a new paragraph, but blocks of dialogue use only single spacing.

Ir kun alfabetisti - The alphabet song

Illyrian children learn an "alphabet song" which is sung to the same tune as the English alphabet song:

Ah äh be de je ef ga,
Ha i ja ka el-äm-än-o-ö,
Pe är äs, še te þa, ju vé ipsilon zéta
Ja ir alfabetas jussi, jazo 'ta nén klósoli?

The last line translates to: "I know the alphabet, isn't that lovely?"

Sanarakoinaslys - Morphology

Tuisli satslys - Basic syntax

Illyrian is an inflecting language following a typically Indo-European nominative-accusative morphosyntactic alignment.

Nouns inflect for number and case. There are two numbers in Illyrian, singular and plural. There are four cases: nominative, accusative, genitive, and a simple locative (which often fulfills the function of dative). There are two genders in Illyrian: masculine and feminine. There is no neutral gender. Masculine nouns have four possible declensions, feminine nouns only one.

Personal pronouns inflect for three persons (first, second, third) and two numbers (singular and plural). Personal pronouns feature nominative, accusative, and locative forms. The genitive actually has three forms (masculine, feminine, and a gender-neutral plural) which agree in gender and number with the noun they indicate possession of and therefore also function as simple possessives.

Adjectives inflect for number, gender, and case, and must agree in all three respects with the noun they modify. Unlike nouns, however, adjectives only have one plural form, which is indifferent to gender. The adjective comes before the noun.

Verbs inflect for tense, person, number, and mood, and they must agree with the subject. Illyrian verbs have five tenses: present, past, present perfect, future, and future perfect (historically there was a past perfect tense, but since narrative storytelling is done in the present tense, it is no longer used). There is a conditional mood and a subjunctive mood, both of which can be used with all five tenses--thus to answer the question "idan?" will you go? the answer "ja idellai nem ja arverai" I would will go, but I have to will work is grammatically acceptable. Finally, there is a passive voice, and naturally only transitive verbs have passive forms.

For adverbs, no agreement of person, number, etc. is necessary. Most adjectives can be made into adverbs by adding the suffix -(e)þai.

Sanet ortaslys - Word order

Illyrian word order is basically SOV, though in some instances (usually for clarity) SVO may be acceptable.

Se asa ka mén hassen? Do you want to eat with me?

You - to eat - with - me - want (you)?

There are cases in which SVO word order is acceptable. The most notable case is when using the verb "essa" to be.

Vai on ilieskai. We are Illyrian.

Sonic Youth en meun fásti örisli. Sonic Youth is my favourite band.

The indirect object (usually in locative case) comes after the verb.

Sto kita miksi! Give me that!

Vai kienas krainek saksi. We're buying you a dog.

Because of the Illyrian language's inflecting nature, in casual everday speech, subject pronouns are often dropped from simple sentences:

Ir poikas irs'i. I see the boy.

Sa linniai idas. They are going to the city.

Pénte isten. You are right. (lit. "you have reason/logic")

In some cases the subject pronoun is absolutely necessary. For example, "krainu" could mean I bought, he bought, she bought, or it bought.

Adjectives come before the noun they modify.

Ir sieni poike The little boy

Sa siena talakänta The little conversation

Ir sienai jallet The little rooms

Sa sienai tréšai The little rabbits

Adverbs come after the verb they modify, and no agreement of person, number, etc. is necessary. Most adjectives can be made into adverbs by adding the suffix -(e)þai.

Nö tuisse leteneþai. She sighs sadly.

Ja ka Ili vardu tistiþai. I talked quietly with Ili.

Skolliksi idas fausiþai. They slowly walk to school.

Javati - Gender

Illyrian has two genders: masculine (myskati) and feminine (naini). All nouns are either masculine or feminine--there is no neutral gender. Gender is random, other than obvious inherent sexuality of animate nouns ("sa naina," the woman; "ir poike," the boy) and the fact that loan words are inherently masculine, regardless of their meaning in the original language. Feminine nouns can only end in the letter -a (or its long form -á), but the reverse is not necessarily true: exceptions include "ir sa," the sea, and "ir vaika," the child.

The grammatical gender of an animate noun normally corresponds to the noun's natural gender. For such nouns, there is almost always one noun for each gender: for example, a male doctor is toktori, while a female doctor is a toktora. If the gender of the doctor is unknown or is semantically irrelevant (eg. "I need a doctor!") the masculine form is default. For some animate nouns, the only change is in the article: "ir agna" is a male ox, "sa agna" is a female ox. Groups of mixed gender are also described as masculine--therefore a toktori and a toktora would collectively be toktoret.

While nouns have either two forms (singular and plural) or four (masculine singular, masculine plural, feminine singular, feminine plural), adjectives have strictly three forms: masculine, feminine, and plural. Unlike in nouns, the plural form of an adjective is indifferent to gender, as illustrated by the following forms of the phrase "sei vuos" good friend:

	singular	plural
masc.	sei vuos	siai vuoset
fem.	sai vuosa	siai vuosai

In dictionaries, adjectives and animate nouns are usually presented only in their masculine forms--with a few exceptions, like "cow/bull."

Artikelet - Articles

Illyrian has two definite articles: "ir" for masculine singular and plural, and "sa" for feminine singular and plural. There is no indefinite article, though it is not uncommon to specify using "idin," the number one (ex. "Ja kótas isti" I have a cat versus "ja idinas kótas isti" I just have one cat).

As in languages such as French and Arabic, the definite article is used when describing abstract concepts (eg. "ir ei en sei" life is good; "ir politík mén interiesse" I am interested in politics). It is not used, however, when describing general concepts of tangible objects (eg. "kafas iši" I like coffee, "politet lukas" politicians lie). If it is used, it implies that you are describing a particular item or set (eg. "ir kafas iši" would imply something like I like this particular blend of coffee or I like the coffee at this café; "ir politet lukas" would mean these particular politicians lie).

Vilainon sanet izeraninaslys - Assimilation of loan words

Loan words in Illyrian can be divided into two categories: "recent" loan words, and "Illyrianised" loan words, which have been more or less completely assimilated into the Illyrian language.

An example of the former is "week-end," directly from English. To the Illyrian ear, such loan words sound distinctly "foreign," so older speakers and linguistic purists will tend to use an older, fully Illyrian phrase such as "sa soima veikisti," lit. the end of the week. If and when this loan word is assimilated, it would undergo conformity to the Illyrian phonology and orthography, including paragoge (typically of I), since Illyrian does not allow final consonant clusters.

Since all loan words in Illyrian are inherently masculine, regardless of their native gender or function, we could therefore expect "week-end" to Illyrianise to "ir vikendi."

Ivenavniket - Pronouns

Aninai ivenavniket - Personal pronouns

	Nom.	Acc.	Loc.	Poss. (masc/fem/plur)
I	ja	mén	miksi	meun/mahan/met
we	vai	mu	vaksi	mun/maina/mut
you(s)	se	sén	saksi	sen/sina/sinet
you(p)	anai	anai	aiksi	anän/aina/anet
he	isse	han	haneksi	isän/issa/isset
she	nö	hana	hanniai	hanän/hana/hanet
one	an	on	onsi	onän/ona/onet
they	isai/nui	ište	ištaksi	išten/ištai/ištet

Note that unlike many European languages, Illyrian lacks T-V distinction: the second person is divided only by singular and plural, not formal and informal. Everybody is addressed as "se," from young children up to the King and even God during prayer.

Roturai jau ninessulai ivenavniket - Interrogative and relative pronouns

saka - what/which
kie - who
kini - whose
kitsi - to whom
iþe - where
kyta - to where
veuna - from where
jat - why
jakin - when
kaþ - how
kalli - how much/how many
dast - what kind

To form relative clauses, insert the particle "za" after the interrogative pronoun.

Jakin vaden? When are you coming?

Miksi vizieven jakin za se vaden. When you come, call me.

Eta ir auto dast za Ili iste. That's the kind of car (that) Ili has.

Eta jat za ja nén vizievu saksi. That's why I didn't call you.

If you put the interrogative pronoun at the end of the sentence or phrase, it implies that you already know something but have just forgotten.

Isse hjallá kaþ? What's his name again? (lit. "he is called how?")

Interrogative pronouns are also used to set aside clauses.
Miksi vike saka za eta ir melialän. I think that it's the best one.
(Miksi vike - "to me it seems")
Se tun saka za eta u klosoli. You said that it was beautiful.

Note that the phrase "saka za" is, in everyday speech, pronounced ['saksa].

Ivenavnikon elíslys - Pronoun dropping

As Illyrian is an inflecting language, it has some pro-drop features. Generally, two personal pronouns do not appear next to each other.

Ja ir kotas irsi I see the cat

Ja anätta fötbálas iši én I also like to play football/soccer

Sto iši I like it

Se asa ka mén hassen? Do you want to eat with me?

Ištet koté iši I like their cats

Sén irsi I see you

Mén iše? Does he/she like me?

Substantivet - Nouns

Geruntet - Gerunds

There are no gerunds in Illyrian. Instead, either a noun or the infinitive of a verb is used.

Siþa iši. I like to swim for I like swimming

Ir Islyksi ei en klósoli. Life in Islys is lovely for living in Islys

Substantivon kassai - Noun Cases

There are four simple cases in Illyrian: nominative, accusative, genitive, and locative. Masculine nouns have four declensions, feminine nouns only one. For masculine nouns, the declension of a noun can be determined by the final letter in the nominative singular ("default") form.

Declension I: ends in a soft vowel

Declension II: ends in a hard vowel

Declension III: ends in a consonant

Declension IV: ends in vowel+S

However Declension IV is strictly single vowel+S. "Kais" chair, which ends in diphthong+S, is actually Declension III. The five-part examples in this section go in this order: Declension I, Declension II, Declension III, Declension IV, Feminine Declension.

Ir nominativi kassas - The nominative case

The nominative case is used for the grammatical subject. This is the "default" form of nouns found in dictionaries, etc.

Ir poike ir siras ase. The boy eats the cheese.

Ir biro en erdiai. The pen is on the table.

Ir kien nén hante varda. The dog cannot talk.

Ir toslys kafas lagas. The company makes coffee.

Björk huonu « ja en sa jäköra ». Björk sang, "I am the hunter(f)."

Ir akusativi kassas - The accusative case

The accusative case is used for the direct object of a transitive verb. The copula (Essa, To be) is not considered transitive.

Ir siri ir poikas ase. The cheese eats the boy.

Ja ir birou kavu. I took the pen.

Ir kienas hässa autasti! Get the dog in the car!

Isse ir toslyje jusse. He is familiar with the company.

Kiesi jäköri sa jäköré jäku. Another hunter hunted the hunter.

Ir genitivi kassas - The genitive case

The genitive case is used to show possession or belonging. Word order in the genitive case is not fixed. Nominally the word order is the genitive word then nominative word (eg. "Iliesken karta," map of Illyria) but it can switch so as not to break up a definite article (only adjectives can come between an article and the noun: eg. "Sa sura karta Iliesken," the big map of Illyria).

Ir ei poikisti en tresli. The life of a boy is nice.

Ja nén iši ir birasti vieri. I don't like the colour of the pen.

Nö kienisti visanas iste. She has the face of a dog.

Eta ir toslysti direktori. This is the president of the company.

Sa jäkören siknasti hjúla iši. I like the hunter's swan dress.

Ir lokativi kassas - The locative case

The simple locative case is used to express in, on, at, to, towards something. Indirect objects usually fall into this case--Illyrian has only very recently (in the last two centuries) dropped the dative case in common speech; the Ilieskisti Akademí only declared the dative case officially obsolete in the early 20th century.

Sto kita ir poikiksi. Give that to the boy.

Ir biraksi irsa. Look at the pen.

Vót kapo ir kieneksi. There is a hat on the dog.

Ja anþraxas šykju taleksi tosliai. I sent anthrax to a few companies.

Sa hjúla siknasti en sa jäköriai. The swan dress is on the hunter.

Because of the admittedly open meanings of words in the locative case, adjectives are sometimes used for clarity.

Iz ir autaksi ida. Get in the car.

Túla ir sänkiksi ida. Get on the bed.

Ir kót imen ir kotiksi idu. The cat went under the house.

Since context and situation would normally indicate whether "ir autaksi ida" means go to the car or get in the car, these adjectives are usually only used for purposes of clarity.

Adiektivet - Adjectives

Ir filosofi adiektivon - The philosophy of adjectives

The most important thing, when describing something in normal conversation, is not to convey the most accurate description of a thing, but to convey the holistic feeling or perception of a thing. In other words, the qualitative takes precedence over the quantitative. For instance, an Illyrian would not hesitate to describe a certain shop as "that noisy green shop" or a soft day as "a tired, drippy sky." Perhaps this could explain the popularity of Björk in Illyria.

Adiektivon satslys - Syntax of adjectives

Adjectives come before the noun they modify. They must agree with the noun in terms of number and case, but unlike nouns adjectives are indifferent to gender in the plural number. Thus an adjective of regular declension has twelve possible forms.

klósoli = lovely, beautiful

	masc. s.	fem. s.	plur.
nom.	klósoli	klósola	klósolai
acc.	klósolas	klósolé	klosolé
gen.	klósolin	klósolen	klósolon
loc.	klósoliksi	klósoliai	klósolia

Partisippellet - Participles

Verb participles that function as adjectives can be formed by adding the clitic -ppa. Participles inflect just the same as any regular adjective.

Vardappa kien? Ihj, soi ja baitykju nar. A talking dog? Ugh, perhaps I've had too much to drink.

Adiektivon ortaslys - Adjective order

Illyrian has no real preference as to adjective order: "sienai krönai virai" little green men and "krönai sienai virai" green little men are semantically no different and are both acceptable in Illyrian, whereas the latter would sound awkward in English.