Béu : Stuff discarded 3

..... Definiteness

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An interesting concept ... let us think about how English handles it.

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The béu definite/indefinite

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Well the person you are talking to is the person you want to impart the message to (the second person), so basically whether you use "a" or "the" will dependent on the addressee's knowledge of the relevant NP. For example ...

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person
I car want buy	1
I want buy car	0

And to show that the speaker does not have a particular car in mind either he would say "I want buy some car"

but of course he would have some minimum requirements, if he had no minimum requirements he would say "I will buy any car"

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The use of é is very like the use of "some" in English ... a bit of doubt as to whether it makes the NP definite for the 1st person or for the 3rd person.

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Usage of "this" and "that"

???

3) unknown to speaker but known to listener ... "that dog that bit you yesterday was put down" .... or equally valid ... "the dog that bit you yesterday was put down"

The question here is, of course, if the dog is "totally" unknown to the speaker ... why is here speaking about it ... ah, we must go deeper

Or consider this Norwegian, getting more definite in six easy steps.

5) She wants to marry a Norwegian ............. Could be any Norwegian. "She" does not even have any definite Norwegian in mind.

6) She wants to marry a Norwegian ............. Unknown to speaker and listener. But "she" has her eye on a particular Noggie.

7) She wants to marry some Norwegian ..... Not any Norwegian but the speaker known very little about him and the listener nothing.

8) She wants to marry a Norwegian^** ........ Known to speaker but unknown to listener

9) She wants to marry this Norwegian ........ Known to speaker but unknown to listener

10) She wants to marry that Norwegian ....... Known to speaker and listener

9) and 10) can be said to be "half-definite" (my own term) The Norwegian is known but as a sort of peripheral character that hasn't as yet impinged on the consciousness^* of the interlocutors that much. As/if he becomes more into focus in the interlocutors lives he will, of course, become, the Norwegian (or more probably Oddgeir or Roar or what have you).

The use of this and that for "half-definite" makes sense ... it is iconic. "This thing" is near the speaker hence seen, touched, smelt by the speaker ... known to the speaker.

"That thing" is out in the open, hence experienced/known to both speaker and listener.

^*Or the world-model that we each build up inside our heads.

^**Notice that "She wants to marry a Norwegian" is ambiguous ... it could either have the implications of either 5), 6) or 8).

But enough of English. béu makes a noun more definite by putting it further to the left. To have an obligatory a or the in front of every noun is wasteful. However non-obligatory particles (such as "some" are fine)

Basically if a noun or noun phrase is to the left of the verb^* it is definite, if it is to the right it is indefinite. For example ;-

báus timpori glà = The man hit a woman

glà timpori báus = A man hit the woman

However this rule does not effect proper names and pronouns. They are always definite so they can wonder anywhere in the clause and it doesn't make any difference.

^*When I say verb here I am not counting the three copula's. They always have the order

Copula-subject copula copula-complement

Also dependent clauses have fixed word order ???

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Some original thought on "a" and "the"

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Well the person you are talking to is the person you want to impart the message to (the second person), so basically whether you use "a" or "the" will dependent on the addressee's knowledge of the relevant NP. For example ...

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person
I bought the car	1
I bought a car	0

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In the above table I am using terminology from the subject of logic ... 1 = yes, 0 = no, X = yes or no

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So this is the BASIC difference between definite and indefinite.

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In the above example (because of the "situation") we can also say ...

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	Relevant NP known to 1st person	... when 1st person means the speaker of course
I bought the car	1
I bought a car	1^*

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^* Logic makes this a "1" ... not the grammar

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We can combine the two tables above ...

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person	...	Relevant NP known to 1st person
I bought the car	1		1
I bought a car	0		1

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Now lets change the "situation". We will change it as to its "reality" or 'realisation" ...

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person	...	Relevant NP known to 1st person
I want to buy the car	1		1
I want to buy a car	0		X ^***

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But as we said at the start, the reason for saying something is to make the hearer understand, so the X given to the speaker is perfectly logical.

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^***The question will be asked "how to make unambiguous the speakers knowledge of the NP". Some ways are shown in the table below ...

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	Relevant NP known to 1st person	... when 1st person means the speaker of course
I want to buy a certain car	1
I want to buy this car ...	1
There's a/this car (that) I want to buy.	1
I want to buy a car, any car ...	0

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Now lets introduce a 3rd person.

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person	Relevant NP known to 1st person
She married the American	1	1
She married an American	0	X

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"She" of course being the 3rd person.

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Now let's expand the above table a bit ...

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person	Relevant NP known to 1st person	Relevant NP known to 3rd person
She married the American	1	1	1 ^*
She married an American	0	X	1 ^*
She married some American	0	0 ^**	1 ^*

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^* Logic makes this a "1" ... not the grammar

^** Actually many connotations about the speakers attitude when "some" is used. When said "tensely" shows disapproval. When said "whistfully" shows speakers unhappyness with his lack of knowledge about the American. This is the marked case of the indefinite so I guess many many (or any ?) unusual point of view on the speakers part will be coded by "some".

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Now lets change the "situation". We will change it as to its "reality" or 'realisation" ...

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	Relevant NP known to 2nd person	Relevant NP known to 1st person	Relevant NP known to 3rd person
She wants to marry the American	1	1	1
She wants to marry an American	0	X	X
She wants to marry some American	0	0	1

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So to summarise(and simplify) the above data, I would say ...

1) "the" or "a" chosen depending on whether the addressee (2nd person) knows the NP talked about

2) "some" is chosen over "a" to show that the NP is identifiable (but not necessarily by the 1st or 2nd person)

3) ... "some" also has picked up various connotations with regards to the 1st persons view of the NP under discussion.

A bit about "this" and "that"

The original meaning for these two, was when some object is unknown to the addressee but the speaker wants to make it known to the addressee. Typically he points (or gestures) to the object as he introduces it. He will qualify the object with "this" if it is near, and with the word "that" if it is not near.

Now in English, people have started using "this" when something is not in sight. It is used to indicate that the object is known to the speaker but not known to the addressee.

Probably the commonness of the above has prompted people to start saying "this here" instead of "this" by itself.

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Béu : Stuff discarded 3

Contents

..... Definiteness

The béu definite/indefinite

Usage of "this" and "that"

???

Some original thought on "a" and "the"

..... Index

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