Talk:Finnish

Mielenkiintoista. Kaksi pikkupikku huomautusta vaan: sä oot kirjottanu yhteen kohtaan "paitsi" suomeksi.

Aajuu, näin muistan jossain välissä huomanneeni. Pistetääns korjaten.

Ja sitten siinä missä lukee mihin eri juttuihin ð muuttui, niin voisi mainita myös ð > j (mutta ehkä sä et laske sitä "tavallisimpien äänteiden" joukkoon?).

Qwynegold 22:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Voishan noista murteista kirjoittaa paljonkin, ei ole tosin ollut kovin korkealle priorisoituna, ajattelin "sivuhaaroista" käsitellä lähisukukieliä ensin. ð → j mennee aika pitkälti ð → ∅:n alle muutenkin (hiatuksenestona).

Saa tähän artikkeliin tietysti lisäillä kaikenlaista jos haluaa.

(for English speakers: knock yourself out if you want to cover Finnish dialects or other Finnic languages) --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 13:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Ahaa, niin mä vähän ajattelinkin. Qwynegold 14:44, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

IPA Zounds

To have some real sound changes to play with, I made an IPA Zounds sc file from this article. It's not ready yet and probably very inaccurate.

Neat! I've not used IPA Zounds so I can't comment on possible formatting issues etc. The unstress'd vowel changes look like they might need conditioning however? --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 22:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

That's correct, but stress (and other whole-syllable-properties) is a bit clumsy in Zounds, I'm just looking into the code, maybe I can change how that is dealt with. Then I can use more simple conditions than I would have to use now.

 Section Dialects
   Fi = Finnic
   Sa = Samic
   Mo = Mordvinic
   O = Other
 
 Section Rules
 
 
 #Proto-Uralic to Pre-Finnic
 -3500
 
 ŋ/n/_#
 #in the lativ ending → k
 #Dephthongization
 iw/y/_[-syllabic]
 ow/uː/_[-syllabic]
 #Introduction of length
 [+syllabic]x/[+long]/_[-syllabic]
 #Coda nasal simplification (sj=sʲ)
 n//_(t)sj
 m/n/_t
 m/n/_tsj
 m/n/_#
 #Stressed *ë ([ɤ] or possibly [ɯ]) merges with *a ([ɑ] or possibly [ɒ])
 ˈɤ/ˈɑ/_ Fi,Sa,Mo
 #Loss of /w/ before labial vowels
 w//#_o Fi,Sa,Mo
 w//#_u Fi,Sa,Mo
 w//#_y Fi,Sa,Mo
 w//#_oː Fi,Sa,Mo
 w//#_uː Fi,Sa,Mo
 w//#_yː Fi,Sa,Mo
 #Other stressed vowel changes
 ˈaː/ˈoː/_ Fi,Sa
 #(ε=æ)
 ˈɛː/ˈeː/_ Fi,Sa
 #a → æ / {æ e ê i ü}(X)(C)C_ (if not an original distinction)
 aw/o/_ Fi,Sa
 ɛw/o/_ Fi,Sa
 i/e/_[+consonantal] Fi,Sa
 ij/i/_ Fi
 iw/u/_ Fi
 
 #Pre-Finnic to Proto-Finnic
 -2500
 
 [+syllabic]/[+long]/_#
 #*ê *ô → e o / _(X)Ci (new hypothetical vowels for PU, possibly semi-rounded [ɪ ʊ])
 #        → y ɯ → y i / _(X)CA
 #(ɛ=æ), unstress'd
 ɛ/e/_j
 a/o/ˈa([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
 a/o/ˈe([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
 a/o/ˈi([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
 a/e/ˈo([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
 a/e/ˈu([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
 #Loss of remaining /x/
 ixi/øː/_
 uxi/oː/_
 [+syllabic]xi/[+long]/_
 uŋa/oː/_
 #(ɛ=æ)
 yŋɛ/øː/_
 ɛŋi/ɛː/_
 aŋi/aː/_
 iŋi/iː/_
 uŋi/uː/_
 #Cj=Cʲ
 ŋ/j/_[-syllabic]j
 ŋ/w/[+syllabic+high]_ 
 ŋ/w/_[+syllabic+high]
 ŋ/w/_[-syllabic-back]
 # Loss of medial semivowels in i-stems
 uwi/uː/_
 ywi/yː/_
 ewi/øː/_
 wi/i/_
 [+syllabic-back-central]ji/[+long]/_
 ji/j/[+syllabic+low]_#
 ji/j/[+syllabic+high+rounded]_
 ji/i/[-syllabic]_#
 ji/i/[-syllabic]_[-syllabic]
 [+syllabic-back-central]ji/[+long]/_l([-syllabic])[+syllabic]
 [+syllabic-back-central]ji/[+long]/_r([-syllabic])[+syllabic]
 yje/øː/_
 øː/yø/_
 #Initial deaffrication
 ʧ/ʃ/#_
 # ʦj=ʦʲ, sj=sʲ
 ʦj/sj/_
 #Depalatalization
 #(j=ʲ)
 j//[+delayedrelease]_
 j//[+consonantal+continuant-nasal]_
 nj/ni/#([-syllabic])[+syllabic]_[+syllabic]
 nj/n/_
 #Loss of /ð/
 ð/t/_ Fi,Mo
 
 #Proto-Finnic to Proto-Finnish
 -1500
 
 #Loss of /ʧ/
 ʧ/t/_
 ʧː/tʃ/_
 #Diphthong paradigm shift
 j/i/[+syllabic]_#
 j/i/[+syllabic]_[-syllabic]
 w/u/a_#
 w/u/o_#
 w/y/ɛ_#
 w/y/ø_#