Naeso/Grammar: Difference between revisions
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=Grammar of Naeso= | =Grammar of Naeso= | ||
This entire page is probably going to be changing rapidly due to the current status of voting regarding it. Please be aware of this and keep checking back often! Your vote counts! | This entire page is probably going to be changing rapidly due to the current status of voting regarding it. Please be aware of this and keep checking back often! Your vote counts! | ||
==[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusional_language Fusional]., [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglutinative_language agglutinating] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolating_language isolating]?== | |||
==[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusional_language Fusional]., [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglutinative_language agglutinating] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolating_language isolating]?== | |||
Our language is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusional_language fusional]. | Our language is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusional_language fusional]. | ||
=Basic sentence structure= | ==Basic sentence structure== | ||
Our language uses VSO word order. | Our language uses VSO word order. | ||
==Word types== | ==Word types== | ||
''Status: In the works'' | ''Status: In the works'' | ||
| Line 20: | Line 22: | ||
''(I think that we should consider making adverbs a different class from adjectives, created by inflecting adjectives, to resolve the ambiguity with multiple descriptors discussed below. We could maybe even make things that describe adverbs another class, created by using the same inflection on adverbs. - MJ)'' | ''(I think that we should consider making adverbs a different class from adjectives, created by inflecting adjectives, to resolve the ambiguity with multiple descriptors discussed below. We could maybe even make things that describe adverbs another class, created by using the same inflection on adverbs. - MJ)'' | ||
==Nouns in Naeso== | ===Nouns in Naeso=== | ||
''Status: Not yet discussed'' | ''Status: Not yet discussed'' | ||
==Verbs in Naeso== | ===Verbs in Naeso=== | ||
''Status: Currently being voted on'' | ''Status: Currently being voted on'' | ||
| Line 48: | Line 50: | ||
*(Since Naeso is fusional I'd argue that we will need many combinations of mood and whatever else gets voted in, so we will just say that the modality suffixes we create now are in the default tense (e.g. present), aspect (e.g. not progressive or whatever), and validationality (e.g. "almost sure"). When we vote something else in, we can create suffixes that combine two or more of these categories. ~FH) | *(Since Naeso is fusional I'd argue that we will need many combinations of mood and whatever else gets voted in, so we will just say that the modality suffixes we create now are in the default tense (e.g. present), aspect (e.g. not progressive or whatever), and validationality (e.g. "almost sure"). When we vote something else in, we can create suffixes that combine two or more of these categories. ~FH) | ||
===What moods will be marked by inflection?=== | ====What moods will be marked by inflection?==== | ||
# {{V|Indicative|JH=n|FH=n}} | # {{V|Indicative|JH=n|FH=n}} | ||
# Interrogative — '''voted in''' | # Interrogative — '''voted in''' | ||
# Imperative/hortative/jussive | # Imperative/hortative/jussive | ||
#* Only for first and third persons. | #* {{V|Only for first and third persons.|FH=y|JH=y|BL=y}} | ||
#* Also for second person. | #* {{V|Also for second person.|FH=y|MJ=y|JH=n}} | ||
# Abilitative, i.e. equivalent of English "can/may" auxiliary verbs - '''voted in''' | # Abilitative, i.e. equivalent of English "can/may" auxiliary verbs - '''voted in''' | ||
# Desiderative, i.e. equivalent of English "want/wish" auxiliary verbs - '''voted in''' | # Desiderative, i.e. equivalent of English "want/wish" auxiliary verbs - '''voted in''' | ||
# Others...? | # Others...? | ||
*I suggest that a bare verb with no subject mentioned could be interpreted as second-person imperative, and needn't get a mood affix. Similarly a bare verb with an explicit subject can be assumed to be indicative without any explicit marking; that would make words on average shorter. —JH | |||
==Modifiers (adjectives and adverbs) in Naeso== | ===Modifiers (adjectives and adverbs) in Naeso=== | ||
''Status: Being discussed & voted on'' | ''Status: Being discussed & voted on'' | ||
===How will multiple modifiers applied to the same noun be handled?=== | ====How will multiple modifiers applied to the same noun be handled?==== | ||
*a. Just string them together after the noun: noun mod1 mod2 mod3... | *a. Just string them together after the noun: noun mod1 mod2 mod3... | ||
*b. Use an "and" word between them: noun mod1 and mod2 and mod3... | *b. Use an "and" word between them: noun mod1 and mod2 and mod3... | ||
| Line 70: | Line 71: | ||
*d. Any modifiers after the first are marked with a relative clause: noun mod1 which is mod2 and mod3... | *d. Any modifiers after the first are marked with a relative clause: noun mod1 which is mod2 and mod3... | ||
{{V|a.|FH=y|MJ=y}} | |||
{{V|b.|FH=n}} | |||
{{V|c.|FH=y}} | |||
{{V|d.|JH=y|BL=y|FH=n}} | |||
==Naeso Pronouns== | ===Naeso Pronouns=== | ||
Rows where the right-hand column is blank have forms not yet decided. Please propose specific forms on the [[Naeso/Dictionary/Proposed words|proposed words]] page and copy them here after the votes there are decided. | Rows where the right-hand column is blank have forms not yet decided. Please propose specific forms on the [[Naeso/Dictionary/Proposed words|proposed words]] page and copy them here after the votes there are decided. | ||
| Line 100: | Line 101: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| it | | it | ||
| | | | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 3SG current IRC participant | | 3SG current IRC participant | ||
| Line 124: | Line 125: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| they | | they | ||
| | | | ||
|} | |} | ||
==Gendered singular pronouns== | ====Gendered singular pronouns==== | ||
Naeso has optional gender-marking in its third-person singular pronouns. The pronoun "ze" can be used for a specific person whose gender is unknown or which the speaker doesn't wish to specify (the equivalent of Esperanto "ri"), ''or'' for a nonspecific person (the equivalent of French "on", Esperanto "oni", formal English "one"). | Naeso has optional gender-marking in its third-person singular pronouns. The pronoun "ze" can be used for a specific person whose gender is unknown or which the speaker doesn't wish to specify (the equivalent of Esperanto "ri"), ''or'' for a nonspecific person (the equivalent of French "on", Esperanto "oni", formal English "one"). | ||
==IRC-oriented singular pronouns== | ====IRC-oriented singular pronouns==== | ||
Naeso has distinctions in its second-person pronouns depending on whether the addresse is a regular on IRC or is only occasionally on the current channel. | Naeso has distinctions in its second-person pronouns depending on whether the addresse is a regular on IRC or is only occasionally on the current channel. | ||
| Line 139: | Line 140: | ||
How, if at all, those will be used outside of IRC, will be detemined by actual usage. | How, if at all, those will be used outside of IRC, will be detemined by actual usage. | ||
==Plural pronouns== | ====Plural pronouns==== | ||
It's not yet decided what categories, if any, are marked on second and third-person plural pronouns. | It's not yet decided what categories, if any, are marked on second and third-person plural pronouns. | ||
==Nonhuman pronouns== | ====Nonhuman pronouns==== | ||
It's not yet decided what whether Naeso has a single third-person pronoun for all nonhumans, or perhaps one for animals and one for everything else, or one for domestic animals & human artifacts and another for everything else, or... | It's not yet decided what whether Naeso has a single third-person pronoun for all nonhumans, or perhaps one for animals and one for everything else, or one for domestic animals & human artifacts and another for everything else, or... | ||
==Prepositions== | ===Prepositions=== | ||
It's been decided that Naeso has prepositions, and that it will use prepositions for marking [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_relation cases/thematic roles]. A fair number of prepositions have been voted in on the [[Naeso/Dictionary|Dictionary]] page and others are currently being voted on. Another question about prepositions is yet to be voted on: | It's been decided that Naeso has prepositions, and that it will use prepositions for marking [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_relation cases/thematic roles]. A fair number of prepositions have been voted in on the [[Naeso/Dictionary|Dictionary]] page and others are currently being voted on. Another question about prepositions is yet to be voted on: | ||
===Will some or all prepositions inflect for definiteness (i.e., equivalent of "the/a" in English)?=== | ====Will some or all prepositions inflect for definiteness (i.e., equivalent of "the/a" in English)?==== | ||
*a. The most animate or topical preposition (i.e., roughly the "subject") in a given sentence will inflect for definiteness. Typically this will be "ku", "jen", or "bu" (see the Dictionary page). | *a. The most animate or topical preposition (i.e., roughly the "subject") in a given sentence will inflect for definiteness. Typically this will be "ku", "jen", or "bu" (see the Dictionary page). | ||
*b. Only prepositions for core grammatical relations (agent, patient, experiencer, and similar) will inflect for definiteness - not peripheral ones like "at", "during", "with", etc. | *b. Only prepositions for core grammatical relations (agent, patient, experiencer, and similar) will inflect for definiteness - not peripheral ones like "at", "during", "with", etc. | ||
| Line 157: | Line 158: | ||
*d. No prepositions inflect for definiteness. | *d. No prepositions inflect for definiteness. | ||
{{V|a|JH=y|FH=y|BL=y}} | |||
{{V|b|MJ=y|FH=y}} | |||
{{V|c|FH=n}} | |||
{{V|d|FH=y|JH=n}} | |||
====How are prepositions that are not required to inflect handled?==== | ====How are prepositions that are not required to inflect handled?==== | ||
| Line 166: | Line 167: | ||
*2. Other prepositions must not be marked for definiteness. | *2. Other prepositions must not be marked for definiteness. | ||
{{V|1.|FH=y|MJ=y}} | |||
{{V|2.|JH=y|BL=y|FH=n|MJ=n}} | |||
{{Naeso}} | {{Naeso}} | ||
Revision as of 06:09, 18 October 2010
Grammar of Naeso
This entire page is probably going to be changing rapidly due to the current status of voting regarding it. Please be aware of this and keep checking back often! Your vote counts!
Fusional., agglutinating or isolating?
Our language is fusional.
Basic sentence structure
Our language uses VSO word order.
Word types
Status: In the works
- Nouns: Our language has nouns.
- Verbal nouns: Our language has verbal nouns.
- Verbs: Our language has verbs, including 'to be'. -- However, Naeso does not have the verb 'to have'. 'To own', 'to carry', 'to possess', 'to keep', etc, and also an existential structure can replace it.
- Adjectives: Our language has adjectives.
- Adverbs: Adjectives/adverbs are a single class of modifiers.
(I think that we should consider making adverbs a different class from adjectives, created by inflecting adjectives, to resolve the ambiguity with multiple descriptors discussed below. We could maybe even make things that describe adverbs another class, created by using the same inflection on adverbs. - MJ)
Nouns in Naeso
Status: Not yet discussed
Verbs in Naeso
Status: Currently being voted on
Verbs inflect for tense.
Results of another vote on the Naeso/Suffixes page contradict this. We're re-voting below....
- Decided:
- Verbs do not conjugate according to subject or object.
- Undecided:
Verbs may or may not inflect for the following categories - a "no" vote on any of these means it could be marked by anything other than verb inflection (e.g. adverbs, prepositional phrases, separate particles, inflection of some word other than the main verb), specifics to be decided after this vote is over:
Tense — 0/0 (0/0)
Aspect — 0/0 (0/0)
Validationality — 0/0 (0/0)
Plural — 0/0 (0/0)
- (I suggest we wait a bit and see how the votes on tense, aspect and validationality go before making up a lot of mood affixes. If we vote in one or more of the other categories, we might want to fuse some of them, e.g. have indicative mood intersect with various kinds of validationalities or all the moods intersect with some or all of the tenses & aspects. - JH)
- (Since Naeso is fusional I'd argue that we will need many combinations of mood and whatever else gets voted in, so we will just say that the modality suffixes we create now are in the default tense (e.g. present), aspect (e.g. not progressive or whatever), and validationality (e.g. "almost sure"). When we vote something else in, we can create suffixes that combine two or more of these categories. ~FH)
What moods will be marked by inflection?
- Indicative — 0/0 (0/0)
- Interrogative — voted in
- Imperative/hortative/jussive
- Only for first and third persons. — 0/0 (0/0)
- Also for second person. — 0/0 (0/0)
- Abilitative, i.e. equivalent of English "can/may" auxiliary verbs - voted in
- Desiderative, i.e. equivalent of English "want/wish" auxiliary verbs - voted in
- Others...?
- I suggest that a bare verb with no subject mentioned could be interpreted as second-person imperative, and needn't get a mood affix. Similarly a bare verb with an explicit subject can be assumed to be indicative without any explicit marking; that would make words on average shorter. —JH
Modifiers (adjectives and adverbs) in Naeso
Status: Being discussed & voted on
How will multiple modifiers applied to the same noun be handled?
- a. Just string them together after the noun: noun mod1 mod2 mod3...
- b. Use an "and" word between them: noun mod1 and mod2 and mod3...
- c. Use an "and" between them when ambiguity seems likely, i.e. when it might be uncertain whether mod2 modifies mod1 or the noun
- d. Any modifiers after the first are marked with a relative clause: noun mod1 which is mod2 and mod3...
a. — 0/0 (0/0)
b. — 0/0 (0/0)
c. — 0/0 (0/0)
d. — 0/0 (0/0)
Naeso Pronouns
Rows where the right-hand column is blank have forms not yet decided. Please propose specific forms on the proposed words page and copy them here after the votes there are decided.
| I | si |
| you (singular, someone who recently joined the IRC channel) | pae |
| you (singular, someone who's been part of the conversation for a while) | tha |
| you (sing.) | y |
| he | the |
| she | je |
| it | |
| 3SG current IRC participant | ipu |
| 3SG sometime IRC participant not online at the moment | yl |
| 3SG someone who's never on IRC | tyma |
| third-person singular undefined for gender or IRC status, 'one' | ze |
| we (inclusive) | lynh |
| we (exclusive) | sim |
| you (pl.) | ym |
| they |
Gendered singular pronouns
Naeso has optional gender-marking in its third-person singular pronouns. The pronoun "ze" can be used for a specific person whose gender is unknown or which the speaker doesn't wish to specify (the equivalent of Esperanto "ri"), or for a nonspecific person (the equivalent of French "on", Esperanto "oni", formal English "one").
IRC-oriented singular pronouns
Naeso has distinctions in its second-person pronouns depending on whether the addresse is a regular on IRC or is only occasionally on the current channel.
Naeso has optional distinctions in its third-person pronouns depending on whether the mentioned person is a participant in the current chat, someone on IRC at times but offline (or possibly away) at the moment, or someone who's never on IRC. The pronoun "ze" can be used for a specific person whose IRC status is unknown or which the speaker doesn't wish to specify, as well as for a nonspecific person.
How, if at all, those will be used outside of IRC, will be detemined by actual usage.
Plural pronouns
It's not yet decided what categories, if any, are marked on second and third-person plural pronouns.
Nonhuman pronouns
It's not yet decided what whether Naeso has a single third-person pronoun for all nonhumans, or perhaps one for animals and one for everything else, or one for domestic animals & human artifacts and another for everything else, or...
Prepositions
It's been decided that Naeso has prepositions, and that it will use prepositions for marking cases/thematic roles. A fair number of prepositions have been voted in on the Dictionary page and others are currently being voted on. Another question about prepositions is yet to be voted on:
Will some or all prepositions inflect for definiteness (i.e., equivalent of "the/a" in English)?
- a. The most animate or topical preposition (i.e., roughly the "subject") in a given sentence will inflect for definiteness. Typically this will be "ku", "jen", or "bu" (see the Dictionary page).
- b. Only prepositions for core grammatical relations (agent, patient, experiencer, and similar) will inflect for definiteness - not peripheral ones like "at", "during", "with", etc.
- c. All prepositions inflect for definiteness.
- d. No prepositions inflect for definiteness.
a — 0/0 (0/0)
b — 0/0 (0/0)
c — 0/0 (0/0)
d — 0/0 (0/0)
How are prepositions that are not required to inflect handled?
- 1. Other prepositions can be marked for definiteness for clearing up ambiguity or artistic reasons.
- 2. Other prepositions must not be marked for definiteness.
1. — 0/0 (0/0)
2. — 0/0 (0/0)
| Naeso | |
|---|---|
| General: | Voting • Member list • An Introduction to Naeso |
| Phonology and orthography: | Phonology • Stress • Orthography • Transliteration |
| Grammar: | Grammar • Suffixes • Prepositions |
| Lexicon and corpus: | Naeso-English • English-Naeso • Proposed words • Swadesh • Names • Corpus of Sentences • Math |
| Conlang relay torches: | LCC4 Relay |
| This page is part of the project Naeso. We meet up to discuss changes in 'real time' in #naeso on Freenode. | |
