Talk:Siye: Difference between revisions

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(Proposed changes to posted Siye grammar)
 
(→‎Cases: Notes proposed changes)
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The Nominative Case is used for the subject of an intransitive clause and the subject of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is either a pronoun or a personal name. CHANGE: Where a Siye dialect divides between Nominative/Accusative and Absolutive/Ergative, in other words, where the split of the split-ergative occurs, is the primary isogloss between Siye dialects.
The Nominative Case is used for the subject of an intransitive clause and the subject of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is either a pronoun or a personal name. CHANGE: Where a Siye dialect divides between Nominative/Accusative and Absolutive/Ergative, in other words, where the split of the split-ergative occurs, is the primary isogloss between Siye dialects.


2. ABSOLUTIVE (ABS): -0 ABS: Everything Except Pronouns and Personal Names
CHANGE:
3. ACCUSATIVE (ACC): -a, -0, -ha


The Absolutive Case is used for the subject of an intransitive clause and the object of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is not a pronoun or a personal name.
The Accusative Case is used for the object of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is either a pronoun or personal name. -ha occurs after syllables containing a nasal vowel. The Accusative Case is vulnerable to the depredations of vowel dominance, and therefore has a -0 surface form. See the section on complex cases to understand the interactions of this case with others that may precede it.
 
3. ACCUSATIVE (ACC): -a
 
The Accusative Case is used for the object of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is either a pronoun or personal name.


4. ERGATIVE (ERG): -ya, -na
4. ERGATIVE (ERG): -ya, -na
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The Ergative Case is used for the subject of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is not a pronoun or a personal name. -na follows a nasal syllable; -ya follows otherwise. CHANGE: Some have suggested that this is a relic of the days when the Lake-dwellers were the primary speakers of Siye.
The Ergative Case is used for the subject of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is not a pronoun or a personal name. -na follows a nasal syllable; -ya follows otherwise. CHANGE: Some have suggested that this is a relic of the days when the Lake-dwellers were the primary speakers of Siye.


5. GENITIVE (GEN): -ne
CHANGE:
 
The Genitive Case is used to describe alienable possession or an accidental characteristic of a object.
 
6. POSSESSIVE (POSS): -me
 
The Possessive Case is used to describe inalienable possession or an essential characteristic of an object. The Possessive Case, unlike the other Cases, precedes rather than follows the grammatical number suffix.
 
7. ABLATIVE (ABL): -sum
 
The Ablative Case is used to describe motion away from a point or origin from a particular location.
 
8. LOCATIVE (LOC): -kem
 
The Locative Case is used to describe a location, or, in ditransitive clauses, the object being transferred or the price of the object in the Absolutive Case (more rarely, Accusative Case).
 
9. (AL)LATIVE/DATIVE (ALL): -su ALL: Inanimates
 
The Dative Case is used for the inanimate indirect object of a main clause, the inanimate indirect object of a Causative Construction clause when the verb of the Causative Construction clause is in the imperfective aspect, and the inanimate direct object of a Causative Construction clause when the verb of the Causative Construction clause is in the perfective aspect.
 
10. DATIVE (DAT): -tu DAT: Animates
 
The Dative Case is used for the animate indirect object of a main clause, the animate indirect object of a Causative Construction clause when the verb of the Causative Construction clause is in the imperfective aspect, and the animate direct object of a Causative Construction clause when the verb of the Causative Construction clause is in the perfective aspect.


11. INSTRUMENTAL (INS): -ki
11. INSTRUMENTAL (INS): -ki


The Instrumental Case is used to describe the means by which something is done. This case is only used with Inanimate nouns; therefore it is rude to use the Instrumental Case with an Animate nouns.  
The Instrumental Case is used to describe the means by which something is done. This case is only used with Inanimate nouns CHANGE: in Standard Siye; therefore it is rude to use the Instrumental Case with an Animate nouns.  
 
12. ADVERBIAL (ADV): -ku


The Adverbial Case converts roots into adverbs. The Guild of Scholars treats this as a case rather than a separate part of speech.
CHANGE:


13. EQUATIVE (EQ): -pu
13. EQUATIVE (EQ): -pu


The Equative Case is used to describe the second noun or adjective in predicate statement. It is also used a vocative exterior to the core arguments of the clause.
The Equative Case is used to describe the second noun or adjective in a predicate statement. It is also used a vocative exterior to the core arguments of the clause.
 
14. COMITATIVE (COM): -ni
 
The Comitative Case is used to describe accompaniment. It also serves as the primary nominal form of 'and', thus contrasting with the primarily verbal form -(a)m.


CHANGE:NEW CATEGORY
CHANGE:NEW CATEGORY

Revision as of 18:07, 26 April 2013

Proposed Changes

Vowel Dominance

The 3rd person animate subject prefix of the verb is -i- and therefore vanishes most of the time after the object prefixes. It is, however, present in /yi-/ and /umhi-/ CHANGE: and /tumhi-/.

Nominal Morphology

Cases

Cases:

1. NOMINATIVE (NOM): -0 NOM: Pronouns, Personal Names

The Nominative Case is used for the subject of an intransitive clause and the subject of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is either a pronoun or a personal name. CHANGE: Where a Siye dialect divides between Nominative/Accusative and Absolutive/Ergative, in other words, where the split of the split-ergative occurs, is the primary isogloss between Siye dialects.

CHANGE: 3. ACCUSATIVE (ACC): -a, -0, -ha

The Accusative Case is used for the object of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is either a pronoun or personal name. -ha occurs after syllables containing a nasal vowel. The Accusative Case is vulnerable to the depredations of vowel dominance, and therefore has a -0 surface form. See the section on complex cases to understand the interactions of this case with others that may precede it.

4. ERGATIVE (ERG): -ya, -na

The Ergative Case is used for the subject of a transitive clause, provided that the noun is not a pronoun or a personal name. -na follows a nasal syllable; -ya follows otherwise. CHANGE: Some have suggested that this is a relic of the days when the Lake-dwellers were the primary speakers of Siye.

CHANGE:

11. INSTRUMENTAL (INS): -ki

The Instrumental Case is used to describe the means by which something is done. This case is only used with Inanimate nouns CHANGE: in Standard Siye; therefore it is rude to use the Instrumental Case with an Animate nouns.

CHANGE:

13. EQUATIVE (EQ): -pu

The Equative Case is used to describe the second noun or adjective in a predicate statement. It is also used a vocative exterior to the core arguments of the clause.

CHANGE:NEW CATEGORY

Complex cases

Complex cases occur when Suffixaufnahme place an Accusative -a after another case suffix which ends in a vowel.

5. ACCUSI-GENITIVE (AGEN): -na (<-ne-a)

6. ACCUSI-POSSESSIVE (APOSS): -ma(< -me-a)

7. ACCUSI-ABLATIVE (AABL): -sumha (< -sum-a)

8. ACCUSI-LOCATIVE (ALOC): -kemha (< -kem-a)

9. ACCUSI-(AL)LATIVE/DATIVE (AALL): -su (< -su-a)

10. ACCUSI-DATIVE (ADAT): -tu (<-tu-a)

11. ACCUSI-INSTRUMENTAL (AINS): -ka (<-ki-a)

12. ACCUSI-ADVERBIAL (AADV): -ku (<-ku-a)

13. ACCUSI-EQUATIVE (AEQ): -pu (<-pu-a)

14. ACCUSI-COMITATIVE (COM): -na (<-ni-a)

Grammatical Number

Grammatical Numbers:

CHANGE: DUAL (DU): -so, -s

The Dual Number is used to refer to exactly two things. Although pairs of items, such as eyes, are in the Dual Number, the Dual Number does not inherently indicate a pair. CHANGE: The second form -s- only occurs before the continuative affix -u-.

CHANGE: PLURAL (PL): -lo, -l

The Plural Number refers to a group, larger than that of Paucal Number. This is the generic plural in Siye. CHANGE: The second form -l- only occurs before the continuative affix -u-.

Pronouns

CHANGE:

mu: 3rd person indefinite

tum: 3rd person indefinite (before subject prefix (h)i-)

m-: 3rd person indefinite (before verb root beginning with a vowel)

The second form is exclusively Accusative; all other case suffixes attach to the Nominative form.

Verb and Participle Structure

Verb Structure

Verb Structure

2. Subject

CHANGE: -mu-, -m-: 3rd person indefinite

3. Root

Many basic Siye roots are suppletive and correspond with a particular aspect. CHANGE: Others, such as /-im-/, have irregular object and subject prefixes. Most verbs, however, have the same form for both perfective and imperfective verbal forms.

CHANGE: 4. Grammatical Number

-ku: null number

-pu: singular number (also indefinite)

-so, -s: dual number

-ke: paucal number

-lo, -l: plural number

-ka: pantic number (i.e., all); sometimes ethnic (tupikasum lupatekemkasum - from all the birds in the sky)

-pi: exclusive marker (replaces dual, paucal, plural)

The exclusive marker -pi- may replace the dual, paucal, or plural number if and only if the dual, paucal, or plural number is marked on the noun with which the verb agrees in number.

CHANGE: 6. Derivatives

[OOC: This is a semi-open category.]

-hi, -nam: 'begin to X'. -hi- occurs after -sum-; -nam occurs everywhere else.

-(h)u-,-tam: 'continue to X'. -u occurs after -s- and -l-; -hu occurs after -sum-; -tam occurs everywhere else.

-ka: 'intend to X'

-neme: 'stop X-ing'

-te: 'want to X'

-teka- 'should/must X'

-to: negative imperative 'do not X'

-wi: positive imperative 'do X'

-yam: 'able to X'

CHANGE: 11. Coordinative

-(h)(a)m: 'and'. The coordinative suffix is -ham after a syllable containing a nasal consonant; -am after a syllable ending in the vowels -i or -e; -m after a syllabe containing ending in vowel -u

Syntax

Complex Clause Order

NP → N Adj Gen Relative-Clause Possessive Numeral Case


/tupi tuki lupate tupikelo yiyokakanamesokani/

tupi tuki lupate tupike-lo i-i-yo-ka-ka-ne-a-ame-me-so-ka-ni

bird white mountain bird.DIM-PL

3.AN-3.AN-eat.PFV-PN-intend.to-PFV-POS.REALIS-POSS-DU-PN-COM

With all the white birds of the two mountains who intended to eat the many small birds.

POSSIBLE CHANGE: tupi tukikani lupatemesokani tupikelo yiyolokananamekani

tupi tuki-ka-ni lupate-me-so-ka-ni tupike-lo-a i-i-yo-lo-ka-na-ne-a-ame-ka-ni

bird white-PN-COM mountain-POSS-DU-PN-COM bird-DIM-LOC-ACC

3.AN-3.AN-to.eat.PFV-PL-intend.to-DIR.up-ASP.PFV-POS.REALIS-REL-PN-COM

with all the white birds of the two mountains which intend to eat the (many) small birds.

Babel Text

11:1 Luka ukakem tum siye yenakikeni ekimpikina.

11:2 Umlo lupomisum itulosumakem, ilo luponu lukem Sinalamekem eyuluwepunam ilo lu mekem itampusumkakina.

11:3 Ilo ilotu eyekena: lelo yetampake elenupinam lelo a nimuku elepapisumname. Ilotu yetampake yetamkem isaki tumsumtumakikem ekimsokina.

11:4 Ilo eyekena: lelo lusili sili nukepu lupatesu esupunamameni elenupinam lelo lelotu mele lelo mu ponukem luka uka mekem lamusupusumsumuki.

11:5 Kumayam i lusili sili nukepuni umlo yaso ekesona ekopumaki itupuna.

CHANGE: 11:6 Kumayam eyekena: kolowima! Ilo tum yokonopu ikimlokisumham ilotu tum siye ekimpukinasum, eki me ilo anulonammasum, ilo [uka] ilo ekekakana enulomema.

11:7 Lelo lesupinumam lelo siye ilome ilo siye umsane epilomuki epilosumnume.

CHANGE: 11:8 Kumayam ponukem luka ukakem yalo etulosumsunam ilo lusili enupu-neme-nanu.

11:9 Samku mele lume Papale ekimpukima, Kumayam lu mekem siye lu ukane emupusumnunayam Kumayam lumesum ponukem luka ukakem yalo etulosumsunaya.

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