Talk:Finnish: Difference between revisions

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(→‎IPA Zounds: new section)
(moving the sch file out to a new page, since it's big and cluttery)
 
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To have some real sound changes to play with, I made an IPA Zounds sc file from this article.
To have some real sound changes to play with, I made an IPA Zounds sc file from this article.
It's not ready yet and probably very inaccurate.
It's not ready yet and probably very inaccurate.
:Neat! I've not used IPA Zounds so I can't comment on possible formatting issues etc. The unstress'd vowel changes look like they might need conditioning however? --[[User:Tropylium|<span class="IPA">Trɔpʏliʊm</span>]] • [[User talk:Tropylium|blah]] 22:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
::That's correct, but stress (and other whole-syllable-properties) is a bit clumsy in Zounds, I'm just looking into the code, maybe I can change how that is dealt with. Then I can use more simple conditions than I would have to use now. -- [[User:Anaphory|Anaphory]] 11:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Rewritten in sch, seems to work -- [[User:Anaphory|Anaphory]] 02:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


  Section Dialects
[[Talk:Finnish/sch]]
    Fi = Finnic
    Sa = Samic
    Mo = Mordvinic
    O = Other
 
  Section Rules
 
 
  #Proto-Uralic to Pre-Finnic
  -3500
 
  ŋ/n/_#
  #in the lativ ending → k
  #Dephthongization
  iw/y/_[-syllabic]
  ow/uː/_[-syllabic]
  #Introduction of length
  [+syllabic]x/[+long]/_[-syllabic]
  #Coda nasal simplification (sj=sʲ)
  n//_(t)sj
  m/n/_t
  m/n/_tsj
  m/n/_#
  #Stressed *ë ([ɤ] or possibly [ɯ]) merges with *a ([ɑ] or possibly [ɒ])
  ˈɤ/ˈɑ/_ Fi,Sa,Mo
  #Loss of /w/ before labial vowels
  w//#_o Fi,Sa,Mo
  w//#_u Fi,Sa,Mo
  w//#_y Fi,Sa,Mo
  w//#_oː Fi,Sa,Mo
  w//#_uː Fi,Sa,Mo
  w//#_yː Fi,Sa,Mo
  #Other stressed vowel changes
  ˈaː/ˈoː/_ Fi,Sa
  #(ε=æ)
  ˈɛː/ˈeː/_ Fi,Sa
  #a → æ / {æ e ê i ü}(X)(C)C_ (if not an original distinction)
  aw/o/_ Fi,Sa
  ɛw/o/_ Fi,Sa
  i/e/_[+consonantal] Fi,Sa
  ij/i/_ Fi
  iw/u/_ Fi
 
  #Pre-Finnic to Proto-Finnic
  -2500
 
  [+syllabic]/[+long]/_#
  #*ê *ô → e o / _(X)Ci (new hypothetical vowels for PU, possibly semi-rounded [ɪ ʊ])
  #        → y ɯ → y i / _(X)CA
  #(ɛ=æ), unstress'd
  ɛ/e/_j
  a/o/ˈa([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
  a/o/ˈe([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
  a/o/ˈi([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
  a/e/ˈo([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
  a/e/ˈu([-syllabic])[-syllabic]_j
  #Loss of remaining /x/
  ixi/øː/_
  uxi/oː/_
  [+syllabic]xi/[+long]/_
  uŋa/oː/_
  #(ɛ=æ)
  yŋɛ/øː/_
  ɛŋi/ɛː/_
  aŋi/aː/_
  iŋi/iː/_
  uŋi/uː/_
  #Cj=Cʲ
  ŋ/j/_[-syllabic]j
  ŋ/w/[+syllabic+high]_
  ŋ/w/_[+syllabic+high]
  ŋ/w/_[-syllabic-back]
  # Loss of medial semivowels in i-stems
  uwi/uː/_
  ywi/yː/_
  ewi/øː/_
  wi/i/_
  [+syllabic-back-central]ji/[+long]/_
  ji/j/[+syllabic+low]_#
  ji/j/[+syllabic+high+rounded]_
  ji/i/[-syllabic]_#
  ji/i/[-syllabic]_[-syllabic]
  [+syllabic-back-central]ji/[+long]/_l([-syllabic])[+syllabic]
  [+syllabic-back-central]ji/[+long]/_r([-syllabic])[+syllabic]
  yje/øː/_
  øː/yø/_
  #Initial deaffrication
  ʧ/ʃ/#_
  # ʦj=ʦʲ, sj=sʲ
  ʦj/sj/_
  #Depalatalization
  #(j=ʲ)
  j//[+delayedrelease]_
  j//[+consonantal+continuant-nasal]_
  nj/ni/#([-syllabic])[+syllabic]_[+syllabic]
  nj/n/_
  #Loss of /ð/
  ð/t/_ Fi,Mo
 
  #Proto-Finnic to Proto-Finnish
  -1500
 
  #Loss of /ʧ/
  ʧ/t/_
  ʧː/tʃ/_
  #Diphthong paradigm shift
  j/i/[+syllabic]_#
  j/i/[+syllabic]_[-syllabic]
  w/u/a_#
  w/u/o_#
  w/y/ɛ_#
  w/y/ø_#

Latest revision as of 14:33, 17 November 2009

Mielenkiintoista. Kaksi pikkupikku huomautusta vaan: sä oot kirjottanu yhteen kohtaan "paitsi" suomeksi.

Aajuu, näin muistan jossain välissä huomanneeni. Pistetääns korjaten.

Ja sitten siinä missä lukee mihin eri juttuihin ð muuttui, niin voisi mainita myös ð > j (mutta ehkä sä et laske sitä "tavallisimpien äänteiden" joukkoon?).

Qwynegold 22:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Voishan noista murteista kirjoittaa paljonkin, ei ole tosin ollut kovin korkealle priorisoituna, ajattelin "sivuhaaroista" käsitellä lähisukukieliä ensin. ð → j mennee aika pitkälti ð → ∅:n alle muutenkin (hiatuksenestona).
Saa tähän artikkeliin tietysti lisäillä kaikenlaista jos haluaa.
(for English speakers: knock yourself out if you want to cover Finnish dialects or other Finnic languages) --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 13:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Ahaa, niin mä vähän ajattelinkin. Qwynegold 14:44, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

IPA Zounds

To have some real sound changes to play with, I made an IPA Zounds sc file from this article. It's not ready yet and probably very inaccurate.

Neat! I've not used IPA Zounds so I can't comment on possible formatting issues etc. The unstress'd vowel changes look like they might need conditioning however? --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 22:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
That's correct, but stress (and other whole-syllable-properties) is a bit clumsy in Zounds, I'm just looking into the code, maybe I can change how that is dealt with. Then I can use more simple conditions than I would have to use now. -- Anaphory 11:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Rewritten in sch, seems to work -- Anaphory 02:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Finnish/sch

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