|
|
| (9 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown) |
| Line 3: |
Line 3: |
| * [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]] | | * [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]] |
| * [[User:Gsandi|Gsandi]] | | * [[User:Gsandi|Gsandi]] |
| * [[User:Praesidium|Praesidium]](Servator_Mundi) | | * [[User:Praesidium|Praesidium]](Servator_Mundi)''Anyone care to enlighten me on why the Zompster banned me? Throw it on my talk page if you do.'' |
| * [[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]] | | * [[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]] |
| * [[User:Corumayas|Corumayas]] | | * [[User:Corumayas|Corumayas]] |
| * [[User:Keenir]] (Rodlox) | | * [[User:Keenir]] (Rodlox) |
| * [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]] | | * [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]] |
| * [[User:WeepingElf|WeepingElf]]
| |
| * [[User:brandrinn|bandrinn]] | | * [[User:brandrinn|bandrinn]] |
| | * [[User:Kolyakrokodil|Kolyakrokodil]] |
|
| |
|
| ==Voting== | | ==Voting== |
| Line 22: |
Line 22: |
| As per Praesidium's suggestion, declare an issue resolved when there is at least a two-thirds majority in favor of one option, and when it is clear that everyone who intends to vote on that topic has done so. If somebody protests, we can reopen the voting, unless changing the decision would undermine work on the project that has taken place since the issue was first declared resolved. [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]] | | As per Praesidium's suggestion, declare an issue resolved when there is at least a two-thirds majority in favor of one option, and when it is clear that everyone who intends to vote on that topic has done so. If somebody protests, we can reopen the voting, unless changing the decision would undermine work on the project that has taken place since the issue was first declared resolved. [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]] |
|
| |
|
| ===Number of sentient races/species===
| | '''No current issues to vote for''' |
| Current results
| |
| *More than one: 2
| |
| *#[[User:Praesidium|Praesidium]]
| |
| *#[[User:Gsandi|Gsandi]]
| |
| *#<strike>[[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]</strike> <small>Removed by [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]<small>
| |
| *One: 3
| |
| *#[[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]]
| |
| *#[[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]
| |
| *#[[User:brandrinn|brandrinn]]
| |
| | |
| ====More than one====
| |
| #I would also vote for multiple sentient species, as defined above, though a common ancestor origin would be the most logical and equivocating. [[User:Praesidium|Praesidium]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| #Two or three, maybe the ancestral Homo spread to various continents and then evolved differently enough on each to form a separate species. or we could have some local differentiation by size and ecological niche, as in LOTR. [[User:Gsandi|Gsandi]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| #<strike>I'd like to have 2 sencient species. I'm thinking aboy different niches. This could make it impossible to have a relatively recent common ancestor, though. [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]</strike> <small>Removed by [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]<small>
| |
| | |
| ====One====
| |
| #One sentient race only. The reasons are: the possibility of it becoming a thinly-veiled analogy for real-life racism; the tendency for each race to be culturally monolithic due to the small number of contributors; the increased possibility of culture-destroying genocides or extinctions that would be unfair to the conculture's creator; and the difficulty of roleplaying from the point of view of nonhumans. [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]]
| |
| #One sentient race only. Reasons for both are the same as Tmeister's. [[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| #One sentient race. Reason 1: no one here (myself included) is prepared to accurately and realistically predict the effects of multiple species. Reason 2: Our own world provides enough biological diversity to keep phallanxes of anthropologists busy; extra species are unnecssary. Reason 3: species will unquestionably be more monolithic and less diverse than on Earth, as Tmeister pointed out. [[User:brandrinn|brandrinn]]
| |
| | |
| ===Brightness of Alter===
| |
| Current results
| |
| *Brighter than the main moon: 4
| |
| *#[[user:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]
| |
| *#[[user:Corumayas|Corumayas]]
| |
| *#[[user:Keenir|Keenir]]
| |
| *#[[user:brandrinn|brandrinn]]
| |
| *Similar to the main moon: 2
| |
| *#[[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]]
| |
| *#[[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]
| |
| *Significantly dimmer: 0
| |
| | |
| ====Brighter than the main moon====
| |
| #I'd like a really bright Alter, capable to prevent the night from being pitch-black, as this would probably foster interesting cultural consequences. [[user:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| #For Alter, since we've decided to have a binary star system I vote that we make the most of it by having it fairly bright and close. [[user:Corumayas|Corumayas]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| #Now we can see what happens to cultures who can't develop astronomy. [[user:Keenir|Keenir]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| #Having a binary star does seem kind of pointless if it's no brighter than the moon (why not just add another moon?). Also, a night that is slightly brighter than Earth's would be interesting, as long as it's still pretty dark (at least dark enough to thwart photosynthesis and require different types of vision). I'm a big believer in not making Zebia so different that we laypeople can't predict the effects. Also, I'm guessing Zebia's main moon is less luminous than Earth's moon.[[user:brandrinn|brandrinn]]
| |
| | |
| ====Similar to the main moon====
| |
| #I think it should be about as bright as the quarter moon, but it would be more noticable since it would be concentrated into a planet-sized angular area. [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]]
| |
| #What '''Tmeister''' said. [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]
| |
| | |
| ====Significantly dimmer====
| |
| (''No votes for this option'')
| |
| | |
| ===Orbital period of Alter===
| |
| Current results
| |
| *More than about 8,000 years: 0
| |
| *About 6,000 years: 1
| |
| *#[[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]]
| |
| *3,000-4,000 years: 0
| |
| *#<strike>[[user:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]</strike> <small>Removed by [[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]<small>
| |
| *300-3,000 years: 2
| |
| *#[[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]
| |
| *#[[user:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]
| |
| *300 years or less: 1
| |
| *#[[user:Corumayas|Corumayas]]
| |
| | |
| ====More than about 8,000 years====
| |
| (''No votes for this option'')
| |
| | |
| ====About 6,000 years====
| |
| #I think the orbital period should be somewhere along the lines of 6000 years, which amounts to 1 degree every 17 years or so, easily noticeable once astronomers start keeping records. Knowing the apparent brightness and the period of the orbit, all we need is a way to correlate absolute brightness to mass, and we can calculate the distance, mass, and absolute brightness using Kepler's 3rd Law. [[User:Tmeister|Tmeister]]
| |
| | |
| ====3,000-4,000 years====
| |
| #<strike>6000 years orbit sounds okay, but what about half or 2/3 of that, so even long-lived laymen might notice it? [[user:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister--></strike>
| |
| I've preliminarily changed my vote because of Corumayas' remark on the board. We should have some sample calculations before deciding this issue.[[user:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]
| |
| | |
| ====300-3,000 years====
| |
| #I'd like an orbital period of 2000 years. [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]
| |
| | |
| ====300 years or less====
| |
| #I'd also like an orbital period on the order of a few decades to a couple centuries. [[user:Corumayas|Corumayas]] <!--Moved here by Tmeister-->
| |
| | |
| ===Final votes fro Alter===
| |
| Given the relation between Alter's brightness, mass and orbital period, it's somwhow impossible to vote for these things in separate.
| |
| I propose that each of us write here what they prefer and then we can arrive at a consensus...
| |
| | |
| Here is a code that can be used:
| |
| *'''O''': Orbit type. Can be a circle or an ellipse.
| |
| *'''P''': Period – either in Earth Years (EY) or Zebian Years; relation is 1ZY = 1.27507EY.
| |
| *'''M''': Magnitude
| |
| *'''D''': Distance from Novus. In orbits that are ellipses, show the semimajor axis.
| |
| *'''C''': Comments and observations about your option.
| |
| | |
| If you can, make your own calculations, or else just present what you want. Remember that between P, M and D, I think you can only give two, and the other will be difined through the formulas (perhaps [[User:bandrinn|bandrinn]] coule help here with the elliptical orbits). [[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]
| |
| | |
| ====Options====
| |
| #*'''O''': Ellipse
| |
| #*'''P''': 1728 zy
| |
| #*'''M''': -12.1
| |
| #*'''D''': (Whatever the calculations will handle...)
| |
| #*'''C''': None.
| |
| ::[[User:Jotomicron|Jotomicron]]
| |
| | |
| #*'''O''': Ellipse (the more elliptical the better)
| |
| #*'''P''': (Don't care)
| |
| #*'''M''': at its brightest (perihelion), somewhere between -17 and -15
| |
| #*'''D''': (Don't care)
| |
| #*'''C''': I would like a fairly bright Alter (remember it will be much darker when it's at aphelion, so the average brightness will be much lower)
| |
| ::[[User:Brandrinn|Brandrinn]]
| |
| | |
| #*'''O''': Ellipse
| |
| #*'''P''': 235 zy
| |
| #*'''M''': somewhere around -16 at its brightest; average at least -12
| |
| #*'''D''': whatever produces the above
| |
| #*'''C''':
| |
| ::[[User:Corumayas|Corumayas]]
| |
| | |
| #*'''O''': Ellipse
| |
| #*'''P''': A "mystical number" below 2000 zy. 1728 zy is 12*12*12, if people vote for a shorter period I'd like 216 zy (6*6*6), 729 zy (9*9*9), or 1296 zy (6*6*6*6). I'm indifferent as to which of these it is.
| |
| #*'''M''': somewhere around -16 at its brightest; average at least -12
| |
| #*'''D''': (to be calculated...)
| |
| #*'''C''': I'd prefer a smaller, long-lived star, maybe 0.8 times the mass of Novus.
| |
| ::[[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]]
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Results of voting== | | ==Results of voting== |
| Line 151: |
Line 36: |
| **1 vote in favor of 15% | | **1 vote in favor of 15% |
| **1 abstain | | **1 abstain |
| | *Alter's physical characteristics: <small>Values kindly calculated by Kalan</small> |
| | **Mass (compared to Novus): 0.9<br />Orbital period: 1728 Zebian years<br />Great semi-major axis: 218.7 AU<br />Perihelion: 178.5 AU<br />Aphelion: 565 AU<br />Magnitude in Perihelion: -15.67 mag<br />Magnitude in Aphelion: -13.1 mag |
| | **These results were (difficultly) acchieved after a long time by means of a random process |
|
| |
|
| ====Biological==== | | ====Biological==== |
| Line 156: |
Line 44: |
| **5 votes in favor | | **5 votes in favor |
| **0 votes against | | **0 votes against |
| | | *Number of sencient species: One |
| ====Other ''(hereby nominated for deletion)''====
| | **2 votes in favor of more than one |
| [[User:Cedh audmanh|Cedh Audmanh]] 14:18, 14 April 2007 (PDT)
| | **3 votes in favor of exaclty one |
| *Pronounciation: it is in fact irrelevant, as we can refer to it in our heads however we like. | |
| **1 in favor of /nowUs/ | |
| **1 in favor of /nov@s/ | |
| **3 proclaiming its irrelevance
| |
List of Contributors
If you are a contributor, sign below with three tildes. If your wiki screenname is different from your ZBB name, list that as well.
Voting
I propose we use a two thirds majority voting system, as such will encourage debate to a point where everyone is happy enough if there is not a great majority, while not having the annoying qualities of a system requiring unaniminity. Thus when voting on an aspect give your opinion, and a brief statement of why. Praesidium
Upon thinking about it, I think gsandi's idea of signing the updated total would be a good way to insure that no vote is counted twice, etc... Praesidium
Note: discussion should be carried out primarily at the forum, this is for posting your official opinion on something, please update your posts rather than add new ones. Praesidium
I have reorganized the unresolved issues into this section, replacing the other voting section (I hope you're not offended, Praesidium!). If you would like to vote, add your vote to the appropriate category, along with your reason(s), and update the "Current results". This section is not for general discussion of the topics, which should take place in another section or in the ZBB thread. For those who have already voted in the other voting section, I have copied your votes here; I hope you don't mind. Also, if the option you would like to vote for is not on the list, add it yourself, following the pattern of the other options.
As per Praesidium's suggestion, declare an issue resolved when there is at least a two-thirds majority in favor of one option, and when it is clear that everyone who intends to vote on that topic has done so. If somebody protests, we can reopen the voting, unless changing the decision would undermine work on the project that has taken place since the issue was first declared resolved. Tmeister
No current issues to vote for
Results of voting
I'm adding this to show the results of topics that have been decided. A description of a given topic will placed here, and a note should be put next to the relevant topic in voting saying that said topic appears to be decided, that topic should be removed from voting after several days have passed. If you wish to contest the decision to move it here for any reason you must do so before it is removed from voting. To do so make a note here explaining why, rather than deleting it outright. Praesidium
I went ahead and deleted the determined issues, since there has been no contesting of the decisions. Praesidium 19:04, 17 March 2007 (PDT)
Be sure to sign with four tildes when nominating a topic for deletion to aid in determining what should be deleted. A topic should be nominated if one choice has the 2/3 majority and hasn't been voted on for a while. Praesidium 22:16, 31 March 2007 (PDT)
Physical characteristics of the system
- Size of Zebia: ~3%>Earth
- 3 votes in favor of ~3%
- 1 vote in favor of 15%
- 1 abstain
- Alter's physical characteristics: Values kindly calculated by Kalan
- Mass (compared to Novus): 0.9
Orbital period: 1728 Zebian years
Great semi-major axis: 218.7 AU
Perihelion: 178.5 AU
Aphelion: 565 AU
Magnitude in Perihelion: -15.67 mag
Magnitude in Aphelion: -13.1 mag
- These results were (difficultly) acchieved after a long time by means of a random process
Biological
- Use of humans/humanlike creatures as the sentient race(s): Yes
- 5 votes in favor
- 0 votes against
- Number of sencient species: One
- 2 votes in favor of more than one
- 3 votes in favor of exaclty one
