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This is a place to brainstorm about the Ibero-Hesperic branch of the [[Hesperic]] family.
This is a place to brainstorm about the [[Durian]] branch of the [[Hesperic]] family. First of all, "Ibero-Hesperic" is a provisional designation. The [[Durian]] languages have a great influence of the [[Basque]] languages. [[Proto-Durian]] was spoken in northern Iberian peninsula around '''1400 BC''' and is probably the language which gave their name to "Picos de Europa".


==General Introduction ==
== Geographical range ==


First of all, "Ibero-Hesperic" is a provisional designation.
The Durian languages are limited to the northwestern quarter of the peninsula, bordered to the east by a line running from Santander to Madrid and to the south by the Tajo river. This is where the [[Old European hydronymy]] extends on the Iberian Peninsula; also, in the other areas languages from earlier strata - Basque and Iberian, and perhaps also Tartessian (though some scholars consider the latter a Celtic language), are attested.


The "Ibero-Hesperic" languages have a great influence of the Basque languages.
== Etymology of "Picos de Europa" ==


Now to the two languages (there may be more in the future but currently I have only plans for two), what little I already "know".
"Picos de", is clearly a spanish composition, but "Europa", is a conflictive toponym because sure does not refer to the continent. The proposal is '''*ewɾopa < *(ɦ)uɾupa < *urpa < *xarba''' wich meaning mountain, like '''*alpa''' in [[Alpianic]].


== Daughter languages ==
=== First Step (Proto-Durian) ===


=== Corunese ===
Actually, the Proto-Hesperic term for 'mountain' is '''*xarba'''.


Corunese is an extinct ancient language known from an inscription found at A Coruña, Spain. This is a bilingual: the same text is found in Corunese on one side of a bronze plaque and in Old Albic on the other. Both languages are written in Old Albic letters. (The text has not been composed yet.) There may be more inscriptions. Perhaps the beginnings of may have converged phonologically towards Basque, with fortis/lenis pairs such as p/b, t/d, k/g, tz/z, ts/s, tx/x, trend are already visible in Corunese.
The proto-term '''*ərpa''' is own to Proto-"Ibero-Hesperic", with the typical vowel change would be expected for the "Ibero-Hesperic" mother tongue '''*urpa''', just like:


=== Balla ===
'''*ə < *xa; as *i < *xi; *u < *xu''' as opposed to '''*a < *a; *e < *i; *o < *u''', with these changes will end up generating a system of six vowels, the central vowel '''ə''' will evolve differently depending on the consonant that influences it, in this case '''*ul < *l̥ < *əl ; *ur < *r̥ < *ər''', in other cases '''*an < *n̥ < *ən; *am < *m̥ < *əm'''; in the rest of cases the vowel '''ə''' ends up becoming in '''aspirated a''' which in many cases is eliminated.


Balla is a living language, spoken in a few households, somewhere in Cantabria. The ancient genitive "*-s" like a new topic marker may have become an ergative suffix in Balla. Balla may have converged phonologically towards Basque, with fortis/lenis pairs such as p/b, t/d, k/g, tz/z, ts/s, tx/x.
The confusion between the lenis/fortis stop consonants system is common, the changes of '''*-p- < *-b-; *-t- < *-d-; *-k- < *-g-''', in the middle of the stem, but at the beginning of the word the fortis variant is present.


== Changes from Proto-Hesperic ==
=== Second Step ("Europan"/Balla?) ===


=== In Mediterranean Hesperic... ===
The Proto-"Ibero-Hesperic" term for "Mountain" is '''*urpa''', which would pass to an unknown language (presumably [[Balla]], when it reached a greater extent) as '''*(ɦ)uɾupa''', with a simple changes:


In both Ibero-Hesperic and Italo-Hesperic, the genitive '''*-s''' has become a topic marker and vocative case.
Prosthetic consonants are added as follows: '''*ɦu- < *u-; *ho- < *o-'''; and '''*ji- < *i-; *je- < *e-; *ja- < *a-'''. In this step the vowel '''ə''' leads to '''a''' or is eliminated.


Suffix -ja as feminine marker and the suffix -wa as masculine marker.
To simplify the pronunciation of the '''*-r-''' with a stop consonant, put a '''*-u-''' (considered as little phonemic) between '''*-rp-''', and other groups with stops, what would lead to '''*-ɾ-''', easier to pronounce. This is discussed by many linguists and is unlikely but not impossible, because there is little evidence, perhaps its origin is in the adaptation of the name by Spanish.


The Proto-Hesperic word for 'me' (objective case) is *mam; in Continental West Hesperic, final */m/ gave /n/, so we get exactly the form man found in the inscription.
=== Third Step (Spanish) ===


The dative of the second-person singular pronoun is *t‘an in Proto-Hesperic, but in Continental West Hesperic, the originally partitive ending *-l acquired the meaning of a dative ending after the original dative had fallen together with the accusative by the aforementioned sound change.
'''*ewɾopa (written as Europa) < *eoɾopa < *juɾupa < *(ɦ)uɾupa'''  through assimilation with the name of the continent, it would end up giving "Europa" in Spanish. You can see the changes '''*e < *j/*i; *o < *w/*u''', that would form '''*eoɾopa''' and the diptongation of '''*ew < *eo''', and then it would add '''"Picos de..."'''.


A dative *t‘al for the Mediterranean Hesperic.
== Daughter languages ==


Rübenkönig (1989) assumes it to be in origin a past participle in *-at‘, as it is found in other Mediterranean Hesperic languages.
Now to the two languages (there may be more in the future but currently I have only plans for two), what little already "know".


=== In Ibero-Hesperic... ===
=== Corunese ===


Loss of aspiration
[[Corunese]] is an extinct ancient language known from an inscription found at '''A Coruña, Spain'''. This is a bilingual: the same text is found in [[Corunese]] on one side of a bronze plaque and in [[Old Albic]] on the other. Both languages are written in [[Old Albic]] letters (The text has not been composed yet). There may be more inscriptions. Perhaps the beginnings of may have converged phonologically towards [[Basque]], with fortis/lenis pairs such as p/b, t/d, k/g, tz/z, ts/s, tx/x, trend are already visible in [[Corunese]].


[[Drummond's Law]]
=== Balla ===


[[Senantho's Law]]
[[Balla]] is a living language, spoken in a few households, somewhere in '''Cantabria'''. The ancient genitive '''*-s''' like a new topic marker may have become an ergative suffix in [[Balla]]. [[Balla]] may have converged phonologically towards [[Basque]], with fortis/lenis pairs such as p/b, t/d, k/g, tz/z, ts/s, tx/x.


Vowel umlauts
== Changes from Proto-Hesperic ==


Initial accent
=== In Mediterranean Hesperic... ===


Small consonant inventories
In both "Ibero-Hesperic" and "Italo-Hesperic", the genitive '''*-s''' has become a topic marker and vocative case.


No long vowels
Suffix '''*-ja''' as feminine marker and the suffix '''*-wa''' as masculine marker.


Stress accent
The [[Proto-Hesperic]] word for 'me' (objective case) is '''*mam'''; in [[Continental West Hesperic]] '''*-n < *-m''', so we get exactly the form '''*man'''.


Topic-prominent noun declension, topic marker from genitive
The dative of the second-person singular pronoun is '''*t‘an''' in [[Proto-Hesperic]], but in [[Continental West Hesperic]], the originally partitive ending '''*-l''' acquired the meaning of a dative ending after the original dative had fallen together with the accusative by the aforementioned sound change.


Simple verb morphology
Dative '''*t‘al''' for the [[Mediterranean Hesperic]].
 
Rübenkönig (1989) assumes it to be in origin a past participle in '''*-at‘''', as it is found in other [[Mediterranean Hesperic]] languages.
 
=== In Ibero-Hesperic... (Kastenholz scheme) ===
 
* Small consonant inventories
* No long vowels
* Stress accent
* Topic-prominent noun declension, topic marker from genitive
* Simple verb morphology
* Loss of aspiration
* [[Drummond's Law]]
* [[Senantho's Law]]
* [[Alfermann's Law]]
* Vowel umlauts
* Initial accent


=== Changes due to the influence of basque... ===
=== Changes due to the influence of basque... ===
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==== Phonology ====
==== Phonology ====


Has a five vowels system /a e i o u/, there are also five diphthongs /aj ej oj uj aw ew/
It has a five vowels system '''/*a *e *i *o *u/''', there are also five diphthongs '''/*aj *ej *oj *uj *aw *ew/'''.
 
Three/Four pairs of sibilants. Loss of non-sibilant fricatives.
Three/Four pairs of sibilants. Loss of non-sibilant fricatives.


Development of two rhotic consonants, a simple vibrant sea [ɾ] and another multiple [r]
Development of two rhotic consonants, a simple vibrant '''*ɾ''' and another multiple '''*r'''.


there is no '''w''' before vowel
There is no '''*(-)w-''' before vowel.


absence of '''l''' final
Absence of '''*-l''' final.


there is no vibrant '''r''' at the beginning of the word
There is no vibrant '''*r-''' at the beginning of the word. Addition of a prosthetic vowel.


absence of consonant after initial '''s'''
Absence of consonant after initial '''*s-'''.


absence of groups of more than two consonants
Reinforcement of the initial '''*l-'''.


There are no syllabic groups formed by a more vibrant or laterally more vocal occlusive consonant (stories like "bra" or "cle") neither in proto-Basque nor in Iberian. The syllabic structure is (C) -V- (S) in both languages, where C is any consonant, S is a sibilant (s, z, ...) or sonorant (n, r) and V a vowel nucleus (formed by a vowel or decreasing diphthong).
Formation of diminutives with '''*i'''.


There are two sibilants in Iberian who have proposed to parallelize with the two series of Basque sibilants. It must be said that the apicoalveolar sound [s] of the Iberian languages, including Basque, is relatively strange outside the Iberian Peninsula.
Consonant voicing of initial voiceless.
non-existence of labiodental deaf / f / and sonorous / v /


==== Morphology ====
Palatization of '''*dj < *dd; *iʎ < *il; *iɲ < *in; *iʃ < *is; *tj < *tt; *itj < *it; *idj < *id; *tʃ < *t(u)l; *x < *k(u)l'''.


ethnonimos and gentiles in -tar, as much in aquitano "-tar" and "-thar" as in Basque "-tar", "-ar"
Other posible consonantic changes like '''*b < *gw; *kk < *k'w; *ss < *ns; *p < *kw; *s < *xs; *-un- < *-mn-; *-Vi > *-Vgi; *-lb- < *-lw-; *-rb- < *-rw-; *ul < *wl; *i < *dj; *-r- < *-rg-'''


genitives perhaps in -in [the identification of -in as a genitive in English is a conjecture and is widely discussed]
Absence of groups of more than two consonants.


plurals perhaps in -k [conjectural identification for the Iberian, still discussed]
Intervocalic '''*-n-''' fall.


ablative perhaps in -te [conjectural identification for the Iberian, still discussed]
There are no syllabic groups formed by a stop consonant + vibrant/lateral + vowel.


similar alternances of the Iberian type "-ildun / iltu- / iltur-" and Basque "egun / egu- / egur-"
The syllabic structure is CVSV , where C is any consonant, S is a sibilant or sonorant and V a vowel or a diphthong.


presence of prefixes i_, b_, ba_, da_ (whose functions in Ibero are still not very well understood)
Betacism '''*b < *w'''.


presence of suffixes _la. _ra, _k, _ik (whose functions in Ibero are still not well understood)
Absence of '''*f''' or '''*v'''.


==== Grammar ====
==== Grammar ====


It marks grammatical relations by adding suffixes to roots. Prefixes are relatively uncommon.
It marks grammatical relations by adding suffixes to roots. Prefixes are relatively uncommon.
Anteposition of the genitive.


The nouns are marked for definiteness/indefiniteness.
The nouns are marked for definiteness/indefiniteness.
Line 118: Line 134:
Finite verbs generally agree in person and number with their subjects, and their direct and indirect objects if any. Only have Present and Past Simple.
Finite verbs generally agree in person and number with their subjects, and their direct and indirect objects if any. Only have Present and Past Simple.


Intransitive verbs are conjugated with the auxiliary verb ‘be’, which also functions as an independent verb.
Intransitive verbs are conjugated with the auxiliary verb "be", which also functions as an independent verb.


Transitive verbs are conjugated with the auxiliary ‘have’.
Transitive verbs are conjugated with the auxiliary "have".


Besides the indicative mood, verbs also have various imperative, subjunctive, potential, conditional and irrealis contrary to fact forms.
Besides the indicative mood, verbs also have various imperative, subjunctive, potential, conditional and irrealis contrary to fact forms.


==== Ergativity? ====
==== Ergativity ====


They are languages with ergative-absolutive and aglutinative morphological alignment.
They are languages with ergative-absolutive and aglutinative morphological alignment.


'''Absolutive:''' is the grammatical case used to mark both the subject of an intransitive verb and the object of a transitive verb. prefixes are used for this case
'''Absolutive:''' Is the grammatical case used to mark both the subject of an intransitive verb and the object of a transitive verb. Prefixes are used for this case.
 
'''Ergative:''' marks the subject of transitive verbs.suffixes are used for this case. Agreement is usually ergative. Certain past-tense forms are marked by prefixes in this case.
 
 
 
 
Syntactic
 
anteposition of the genitive
substantive order - adjective


'''Ergative:''' It marks the subject of transitive verbs. Suffixes are used for this case. Agreement is usually in this case. Certain past-tense forms are marked by prefixes in this case.


Lexicons
===Umlaut===


The Proto-Durian Umlaut, originally gave rise to the system of five vowels of the daughter Durian languages.


"ilti / iltiŕ" ILI / ILER Iberian city with "iri" (<* ili) city in Basque
{|class="wikitable"
"beleś / bels" can be compared to the Aquitanian "Belex", "-bels" and the Basque "beltz" black (note that there are indications that in the Aquitaine script the sign X was used for ts / tz and that this use of X is observed in some medieval Basque texts).
|-
"ilun" dark in Basque and "Ilunn-" in Aquitano with the Iberian iltun (alphabet in Latin alphabet and English in Greek alphabet), although the meaning "dark" in Iberian is considered improbable.
!Radical||a-umlaut||i-umlaut||u-umlaut
the Iberian "-atin" with the aquitano "Dannadinnis" and the Basque "adin" age
|-
"śalir" perhaps monetary unit in Iberian with "sari" (<* sali) value, price in Basque as proposed by Mitxelena.
||*a||*a||*e||*o
"ekiar / ekien" maybe he has done in iberian with "egin" do / egian he did it in euskera
|-
erder / erdi in Iberian, erdi in protovasco and current Basque, means half in Spanish.
||*i||*e||*i||*u
"ebanen" perhaps he has erected in Iberian with "ibeni" place, erect in Euskera. Velaza and others defend that "eban / ebanen" means son, equivalent to the Latin "filius"; interpretation that Untermann considers unsustainable.
|-
equivalences of other words similar to Basque: "bizkar" back / high in the mountains, "argi" light / bright, "lagun" mate also "kide", or "nabar" dark.19
||*u||*o||*i||*u
Anthroponymous: some are so similar that at the same time you can not affirm the belonging to one or another group
|-
the Iberian name "Enne-ges" can be compared with the aquitano "Ennebox" and the medieval Basque "Enneco"
|}
the anthroponym íbero "talscu-bilos" with the aquitano Talsco, Halsco
Iberian "biośildun" with the aquitano "Bihoxus"
Iberian "Torsinno", aquitano "Torsteginno"
Iberian "Borste", aquitano "Borsus" and the Basque "bortz" five
Iberian "Baiser", aquitano "Baeserte", "Baisothar" (?) and the Basque "baso" (?) forest

Latest revision as of 19:07, 10 March 2018

This is a place to brainstorm about the Durian branch of the Hesperic family. First of all, "Ibero-Hesperic" is a provisional designation. The Durian languages have a great influence of the Basque languages. Proto-Durian was spoken in northern Iberian peninsula around 1400 BC and is probably the language which gave their name to "Picos de Europa".

Geographical range

The Durian languages are limited to the northwestern quarter of the peninsula, bordered to the east by a line running from Santander to Madrid and to the south by the Tajo river. This is where the Old European hydronymy extends on the Iberian Peninsula; also, in the other areas languages from earlier strata - Basque and Iberian, and perhaps also Tartessian (though some scholars consider the latter a Celtic language), are attested.

Etymology of "Picos de Europa"

"Picos de", is clearly a spanish composition, but "Europa", is a conflictive toponym because sure does not refer to the continent. The proposal is *ewɾopa < *(ɦ)uɾupa < *urpa < *xarba wich meaning mountain, like *alpa in Alpianic.

First Step (Proto-Durian)

Actually, the Proto-Hesperic term for 'mountain' is *xarba.

The proto-term *ərpa is own to Proto-"Ibero-Hesperic", with the typical vowel change would be expected for the "Ibero-Hesperic" mother tongue *urpa, just like:

*ə < *xa; as *i < *xi; *u < *xu as opposed to *a < *a; *e < *i; *o < *u, with these changes will end up generating a system of six vowels, the central vowel ə will evolve differently depending on the consonant that influences it, in this case *ul < *l̥ < *əl ; *ur < *r̥ < *ər, in other cases *an < *n̥ < *ən; *am < *m̥ < *əm; in the rest of cases the vowel ə ends up becoming in aspirated a which in many cases is eliminated.

The confusion between the lenis/fortis stop consonants system is common, the changes of *-p- < *-b-; *-t- < *-d-; *-k- < *-g-, in the middle of the stem, but at the beginning of the word the fortis variant is present.

Second Step ("Europan"/Balla?)

The Proto-"Ibero-Hesperic" term for "Mountain" is *urpa, which would pass to an unknown language (presumably Balla, when it reached a greater extent) as *(ɦ)uɾupa, with a simple changes:

Prosthetic consonants are added as follows: *ɦu- < *u-; *ho- < *o-; and *ji- < *i-; *je- < *e-; *ja- < *a-. In this step the vowel ə leads to a or is eliminated.

To simplify the pronunciation of the *-r- with a stop consonant, put a *-u- (considered as little phonemic) between *-rp-, and other groups with stops, what would lead to *-ɾ-, easier to pronounce. This is discussed by many linguists and is unlikely but not impossible, because there is little evidence, perhaps its origin is in the adaptation of the name by Spanish.

Third Step (Spanish)

*ewɾopa (written as Europa) < *eoɾopa < *juɾupa < *(ɦ)uɾupa through assimilation with the name of the continent, it would end up giving "Europa" in Spanish. You can see the changes *e < *j/*i; *o < *w/*u, that would form *eoɾopa and the diptongation of *ew < *eo, and then it would add "Picos de...".

Daughter languages

Now to the two languages (there may be more in the future but currently I have only plans for two), what little already "know".

Corunese

Corunese is an extinct ancient language known from an inscription found at A Coruña, Spain. This is a bilingual: the same text is found in Corunese on one side of a bronze plaque and in Old Albic on the other. Both languages are written in Old Albic letters (The text has not been composed yet). There may be more inscriptions. Perhaps the beginnings of may have converged phonologically towards Basque, with fortis/lenis pairs such as p/b, t/d, k/g, tz/z, ts/s, tx/x, trend are already visible in Corunese.

Balla

Balla is a living language, spoken in a few households, somewhere in Cantabria. The ancient genitive *-s like a new topic marker may have become an ergative suffix in Balla. Balla may have converged phonologically towards Basque, with fortis/lenis pairs such as p/b, t/d, k/g, tz/z, ts/s, tx/x.

Changes from Proto-Hesperic

In Mediterranean Hesperic...

In both "Ibero-Hesperic" and "Italo-Hesperic", the genitive *-s has become a topic marker and vocative case.

Suffix *-ja as feminine marker and the suffix *-wa as masculine marker.

The Proto-Hesperic word for 'me' (objective case) is *mam; in Continental West Hesperic *-n < *-m, so we get exactly the form *man.

The dative of the second-person singular pronoun is *t‘an in Proto-Hesperic, but in Continental West Hesperic, the originally partitive ending *-l acquired the meaning of a dative ending after the original dative had fallen together with the accusative by the aforementioned sound change.

Dative *t‘al for the Mediterranean Hesperic.

Rübenkönig (1989) assumes it to be in origin a past participle in *-at‘, as it is found in other Mediterranean Hesperic languages.

In Ibero-Hesperic... (Kastenholz scheme)

  • Small consonant inventories
  • No long vowels
  • Stress accent
  • Topic-prominent noun declension, topic marker from genitive
  • Simple verb morphology
  • Loss of aspiration
  • Drummond's Law
  • Senantho's Law
  • Alfermann's Law
  • Vowel umlauts
  • Initial accent

Changes due to the influence of basque...

Phonology

It has a five vowels system /*a *e *i *o *u/, there are also five diphthongs /*aj *ej *oj *uj *aw *ew/. Three/Four pairs of sibilants. Loss of non-sibilant fricatives.

Development of two rhotic consonants, a simple vibrant and another multiple *r.

There is no *(-)w- before vowel.

Absence of *-l final.

There is no vibrant *r- at the beginning of the word. Addition of a prosthetic vowel.

Absence of consonant after initial *s-.

Reinforcement of the initial *l-.

Formation of diminutives with *i.

Consonant voicing of initial voiceless.

Palatization of *dj < *dd; *iʎ < *il; *iɲ < *in; *iʃ < *is; *tj < *tt; *itj < *it; *idj < *id; *tʃ < *t(u)l; *x < *k(u)l.

Other posible consonantic changes like *b < *gw; *kk < *k'w; *ss < *ns; *p < *kw; *s < *xs; *-un- < *-mn-; *-Vi > *-Vgi; *-lb- < *-lw-; *-rb- < *-rw-; *ul < *wl; *i < *dj; *-r- < *-rg-

Absence of groups of more than two consonants.

Intervocalic *-n- fall.

There are no syllabic groups formed by a stop consonant + vibrant/lateral + vowel.

The syllabic structure is CVSV , where C is any consonant, S is a sibilant or sonorant and V a vowel or a diphthong.

Betacism *b < *w.

Absence of *f or *v.

Grammar

It marks grammatical relations by adding suffixes to roots. Prefixes are relatively uncommon.

Anteposition of the genitive.

The nouns are marked for definiteness/indefiniteness.

There are four definite determiners: three demonstratives and a definite article in the form of a suffix. They are marked for number (singular or plural). All the other determiners are indefinite and are not marked for number.

Word order, SOV. Modifiers precede the nouns they modify.

Indirect objects are marked by suffixes.

Vigesimal (base 20) numeral system.

Verbs

Most verbs use auxiliaries (be, have, do) which follow the main verb.

Finite verbs generally agree in person and number with their subjects, and their direct and indirect objects if any. Only have Present and Past Simple.

Intransitive verbs are conjugated with the auxiliary verb "be", which also functions as an independent verb.

Transitive verbs are conjugated with the auxiliary "have".

Besides the indicative mood, verbs also have various imperative, subjunctive, potential, conditional and irrealis contrary to fact forms.

Ergativity

They are languages with ergative-absolutive and aglutinative morphological alignment.

Absolutive: Is the grammatical case used to mark both the subject of an intransitive verb and the object of a transitive verb. Prefixes are used for this case.

Ergative: It marks the subject of transitive verbs. Suffixes are used for this case. Agreement is usually in this case. Certain past-tense forms are marked by prefixes in this case.

Umlaut

The Proto-Durian Umlaut, originally gave rise to the system of five vowels of the daughter Durian languages.

Radical a-umlaut i-umlaut u-umlaut
*a *a *e *o
*i *e *i *u
*u *o *i *u