Naeso/Dictionary/Proposed words: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 14:41, 18 December 2010

List all unapproved words here (alphabetically when possible for ease of searching) until they're voted in. We are always voting on how to translate a given English word. Vote in the section below this, and remember to remove the word from this list once it's either voted in or voted out. Thanks!

Proposed suffixes

associative plural

Used similarly to English "& co.", see also the description at WALS.

-lun — 0/0 (0/0)

wouldn't this come in conflict with endings in -n? -ES
- I don't think so. —Fenhl 17:52, 22 October 2010 (PDT)

-dun — 0/0 (0/0)

same as additive plural — 0/0 (0/0)

no associative plural — 0/0 (0/0)

genitive+plural

This is supposed to work with all plural forms: additive, collective and associative.

-sti - **voted out**

(violates phonotactics —FH)

-tsi — 0/0 (0/0)

-bim — 0/0 (0/0)

why not -bin or -bun? —ES

-bin — 0/0 (0/0)

-bun — 0/0 (0/0)

present tense

(aspect? WTF. Someone please name this right, as I really don't know how it should be. - BF)

-su — 0/0 (0/0)

(Remember that it's not yet decided whether we will suffix aspect on verbs or tense particles —FH)
(Or something else, like using adverbs for aspect. The first phase of that vote is going on now on the Grammar page. But I don't see a reason not to propose these affixes now and show examples of their use on the Sentences page. And maybe if we end up not having inflectional aspect, always marked on every verb, we can still have some specific derivational aspect suffixes (like e.g. English or French or Esperanto's "re-" prefix; that's derivational, not inflectional like aspect in Russian or Volapük).—JH)
- TODO move this discussion to Grammar page and add a vote rubric for it
See the Sentences page to view proposed examples of how the aspect suffixes might be used and vote on them.

Proposed grammatical particles

temporal preposition

fyu — 0/0 (0/0)

fui — 0/0 (0/0)

This can be used for stuff like four weeks ago or next month. How exactly these will be translated is not yet defined. —Fenhl 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT)

Interrogative pronoun

poynh — 0/0 (0/0)

examples: ku poynh = who, pan poynh = what, fyu poynh = when Fenhl 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT)
I think it would make sense to describe this as an interrogative pronoun, indifferent to IRC/sex/animacy gender, than a "question particle". I also propose that it be used after nouns to mean "which X?". Jim Henry 16:49, 18 October 2010 (PDT)
- I totally agree. —Fenhl 17:05, 18 October 2010 (PDT)

locative preposition

so — 0/0 (0/0)

examples: so inna = there, so ua = here, so Lutetsia = in/near Paris, so Iakobo = at Jim's/where Jim is —Fenhl 11:20, 23 October 2010 (PDT)

for

for, with the intent of, to <verb>
This can be used as a normal preposition (e.g. tau gelan, for water) or like bam to start a subordinate clause (e.g. To bake <food>, you need <ingredients> = <need> ku y pan <ingredients> tau <bake> va <food>)

tau — 0/0 (0/0)

Proposed content words

balloon, dirigible

kunoypavi — 0/0 (0/0)

to fly

pavi — 0/0 (0/0)

airplane, dirigible

kunoytemya — 0/0 (0/0)

to want

sidu — 0/0 (0/0)

I suggest using a desiderative mood affix like bornfor's proposed "-im" with the main verb, rather than a dedicated "want" verb. To say you want a thing rather than want to perform an action, put the "-im" suffix on an "acquire" or "possess" or "eat" or "drink" etc. verb. —JH
- This suffix is already voted in, so I second this —Fenhl 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT)

public, free

free as in "free software", not "free of charge"

pimum — 0/0 (0/0)

nhu — 0/0 (0/0)

nhu like GNU, get it? ~RJ

public, common, non-private, objective

pimum — 0/0 (0/0)

private, subjective, idiosyncratic

teinen — 0/0 (0/0)

public transportation vehicle

bus, train, subway, …

kunoy pimum — 0/0 (0/0)

kunoy nhu — 0/0 (0/0)

public transportation station

train station, bus station, …

kunoypimum — 0/0 (0/0)

kyba kunoypimumbi — 0/0 (0/0)

to give birth

note that to be born can easily be formed with something like Ete va <name>. See also Naso/Sentences.

ete — 0/0 (0/0)

Colors

yellow

djy — 0/0 (0/0)

dy — 0/0 (0/0)

Note someone has proposed "dy" as a number-word on the Naeso/Math page. --Jim Henry 12:45, 26 October 2010 (PDT)

logic

position

prefix — 0/0 (0/0)

infix — 0/0 (0/0)

postfix — 0/0 (0/0)

E.g., for each of those possible positions we would express "red and blue" as:

prefix: bvi dol gel
infix: dol bvi gel
suffix: dol gel bvi

Postfix notation seems very out of place re: Naeso's VSO and head + modifier order. Prefix notation could be interesting, but I am worried that it would be unclear when it affects something more than a pair of single words (two prepositional phrases, two clauses...). I'm voting for infix conjunctions for now, but I might change my vote if someone proposes a good way to disambiguate prefix conjunctions with phrases or clauses. --Jim Henry 10:12, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
It probably makes no sense to vote yes for postfix but I like its Forthyness. (unsigned comment by RJ)
Fenhl has proposed a sentence on the Sentences pages showing how a prefix "or" conjunction could be disambiguated in some cases with a subordinating/relativizer conjunction. --Jim Henry 18:44, 23 October 2010 (PDT)

Suggestion list

If you've grown attached to a certain word or phrase and want it included in the lex, but don't have the faintest idea about what you want it to mean, list it here. We'll consider this the 'grab bag'- other people can look here for inspiration and develop words or phrases off of the ones here, or use them in their entirety. Please do not vote below!

bendiza
kaminto
kaminhto
pulthy
kemsu
ionh

Naeso
General:	Voting • Member list • An Introduction to Naeso
Phonology and orthography:	Phonology • Stress • Orthography • Transliteration
Grammar:	Grammar • Suffixes • Prepositions
Lexicon and corpus:	Naeso-English • English-Naeso • Proposed words • Swadesh • Names • Corpus of Sentences • Math
Conlang relay torches:	LCC4 Relay
This page is part of the project Naeso. We meet up to discuss changes in 'real time' in #naeso on Freenode.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 *Used similarly to English "& co.", see also the [http://wals.info/feature/description/36 description at WALS].
-{{V|-lun|FH=y|JH=y}}
+{{V|-lun|FH=y|JH=y|BF=y}}
 *wouldn't this come in conflict with endings in -n? -ES
 **I don't think so. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:52, 22 October 2010 (PDT)
-{{V|-dun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y}}
+{{V|-dun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y|BF=y}}
 {{V|same as additive plural|FH=y|JH=n}}
 {{V|no associative plural|FH=n|JH=n}}
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 *(violates phonotactics —FH)
-{{V|-tsi|FH=y|JH=y}}
+{{V|-tsi|FH=y|JH=y|BF=y}}
 {{V|-bim|MJ=y|FH=y|JH=n}}
 *why not -bin or -bun? —ES
-{{V|-bin|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y}}
+{{V|-bin|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y|BF=y}}
 {{V|-bun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y}}
@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 ===Interrogative pronoun===
-{{V|poynh|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}}
+{{V|poynh|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y|BF=y}}
 *examples: ku poynh = who, pan poynh = what, fyu poynh = when [[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT)
 *I think it would make sense to describe this as an interrogative pronoun, indifferent to IRC/sex/animacy gender, than a "question particle".  I also propose that it be used after nouns to mean "which X?".  [[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 16:49, 18 October 2010 (PDT)
@@ Line 49: / Line 49: @@
 ===locative preposition===
-{{V|so|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}}
+{{V|so|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y|BF=y}}
 *examples: so inna = there, so ua = here, so Lutetsia = in/near Paris, so Iakobo = at Jim's/where Jim is —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 11:20, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
@@ Line 55: / Line 55: @@
 * for, with the intent of, to <verb>
 * This can be used as a normal preposition (e.g. tau gelan, for water) or like [[Naeso/Dictionary/Naeso-English dictionary#B|bam]] to start a subordinate clause (e.g. To bake <food>, you need <ingredients> = <need> ku y pan <ingredients> tau <bake> va <food>)
-{{V|tau|FH=y|JH=y}}
+{{V|tau|FH=y|JH=y|BF=y}}
 ==Proposed content words==
@@ Line 69: / Line 69: @@
 ===to want===
-{{V|sidu|BF=y|JH=n|FH=n|RJ=n}}
+{{V|sidu|BF=n|JH=n|FH=n|RJ=n}}
 *I suggest using a desiderative mood affix like bornfor's proposed "-im" with the main verb, rather than a dedicated "want" verb. To say you want a thing rather than want to perform an action, put the "-im" suffix on an "acquire" or "possess" or "eat" or "drink" etc. verb. —JH
 **This suffix is already voted in, so I second this —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
@@ Line 80: / Line 80: @@
 ===public, common, non-private, objective===
-{{V|pimum|JH=y|FH=y}}
+{{V|pimum|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y}}
 ===private, subjective, idiosyncratic===
-{{V|teinen|JH=y|FH=y}}
+{{V|teinen|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y}}
 ===public transportation vehicle===
@@ Line 98: / Line 98: @@
 ===to give birth===
 *note that ''to be born'' can easily be formed with something like ''Ete va &lt;name&gt;''. See also [[Naso/Sentences]].
-{{V|ete|FH=y|JH=y}}
+{{V|ete|FH=y|JH=y|BF=y}}
 ==Colors==
-*I suggest letting "dol" cover orange and yellow as well as what we call "red" in English. —JH
-*I suggest we let dol be red, and not orange/yellow. We should have six main colors, plus things like black and white. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]]
-*Now that we have a word voted in for orange, I withdraw my objection to having a separate word for "yellow"; it seems anomalous to have words for red and orange but not yellow. --[[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 13:55, 25 October 2010 (PDT)
 ===yellow===