Naeso/Dictionary/Proposed words: Difference between revisions
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===imperative mood=== | ===imperative mood=== | ||
{{V|-gy|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y|ES=n|MJ=y}} | {{V|-gy|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y|ES=n|MJ=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===additive plural=== | ===additive plural=== | ||
-un — **voted out** | -un — **voted out** | ||
{{V|-m|FH=y|MJ=y|JH=n|ES=n}} | {{V|-m|FH=y|MJ=y|JH=n|ES=n|RJ=n}} | ||
{{V|-am|BF=y|JH=n|FH=n|MJ=n|ES=n}} | {{V|-am|BF=y|JH=n|FH=n|MJ=n|ES=n|RJ=n}} | ||
*-am is already progressive aspect. —FH | *-am is already progressive aspect. —FH | ||
*both are very similar to other aspects that use -m. —ES | *both are very similar to other aspects that use -m. —ES | ||
{{V|-n/-un|ES=y|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|-n/-un|ES=y|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
*-n when a word ends in vowel, -un when it ends in consonant. —ES | *-n when a word ends in vowel, -un when it ends in consonant. —ES | ||
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*wouldn't this come in conflict with endings in -n? -ES | *wouldn't this come in conflict with endings in -n? -ES | ||
**I don't think so. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:52, 22 October 2010 (PDT) | **I don't think so. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:52, 22 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
{{V|-dun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y}} | {{V|-dun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
{{V|same as additive plural|FH=y|JH=n}} | {{V|same as additive plural|FH=y|JH=n}} | ||
{{V|no associative plural|FH=n|JH=n}} | {{V|no associative plural|FH=n|JH=n}} | ||
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*(violates phonotactics —FH) | *(violates phonotactics —FH) | ||
{{V|-tsi|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|-tsi|FH=y|JH=y|}} | ||
{{V|-bim|MJ=y|FH=y|JH=n}} | {{V|-bim|MJ=y|FH=y|JH=n}} | ||
*why not -bin or -bun? —ES | *why not -bin or -bun? —ES | ||
{{V|-bin|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y}} | {{V|-bin|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
{{V|-bun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y}} | {{V|-bun|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y}} | ||
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===question marker / interrogative mood suffix=== | ===question marker / interrogative mood suffix=== | ||
{{V|-tu|FH=y|JH=y|ES=y}} | {{V|-tu|FH=y|JH=y|ES=y|RJ=y}} | ||
==Proposed grammatical particles== | ==Proposed grammatical particles== | ||
===it=== | ===it=== | ||
{{V|ke|FH=y|JH=y|BF=y}} | {{V|ke|FH=y|JH=y|BF=y|RJ=y}} | ||
*(Fenhl suggests using this only for inanimates; I think we might use the non-IRC-participant or epicene pronoun for nonhuman living beings. —JH) | *(Fenhl suggests using this only for inanimates; I think we might use the non-IRC-participant or epicene pronoun for nonhuman living beings. —JH) | ||
*(However, we have voted on the principle "Let usage define meaning", which is why I didn't explicitely state the above. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]]) | *(However, we have voted on the principle "Let usage define meaning", which is why I didn't explicitely state the above. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]]) | ||
===pronoun for last (most recent) line of chat=== | ===pronoun for last (most recent) line of chat=== | ||
{{V|ky|JH=y|FH=y|ES=y}} | {{V|ky|JH=y|FH=y|ES=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===pronoun for last (most recent) line of chat posted by the speaker=== | ===pronoun for last (most recent) line of chat posted by the speaker=== | ||
{{V|soa|JH=y|FH=y|ES=y}} | {{V|soa|JH=y|FH=y|ES=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===temporal preposition=== | ===temporal preposition=== | ||
{{V|fyu|FH=y|ES=n|JH=y}} | {{V|fyu|FH=y|ES=n|JH=y|RJ=n}} | ||
{{V|fui|ES=y|JH=n|FH=n}} | {{V|fui|ES=y|JH=n|FH=n|RJ=y}} | ||
*This can be used for stuff like ''four weeks ago'' or ''next month''. How exactly these will be translated is not yet defined. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT) | *This can be used for stuff like ''four weeks ago'' or ''next month''. How exactly these will be translated is not yet defined. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
===Interrogative pronoun=== | ===Interrogative pronoun=== | ||
{{V|poynh|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|poynh|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
*examples: ku poynh = who, pan poynh = what, fyu poynh = when [[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT) | *examples: ku poynh = who, pan poynh = what, fyu poynh = when [[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
*I think it would make sense to describe this as an interrogative pronoun, indifferent to IRC/sex/animacy gender, than a "question particle". I also propose that it be used after nouns to mean "which X?". [[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 16:49, 18 October 2010 (PDT) | *I think it would make sense to describe this as an interrogative pronoun, indifferent to IRC/sex/animacy gender, than a "question particle". I also propose that it be used after nouns to mean "which X?". [[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 16:49, 18 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
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===locative preposition=== | ===locative preposition=== | ||
{{V|so|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|so|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
*examples: so inna = there, so ua = here, so Lutetsia = in/near Paris, so Iakobo = at Jim's/where Jim is —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 11:20, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | *examples: so inna = there, so ua = here, so Lutetsia = in/near Paris, so Iakobo = at Jim's/where Jim is —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 11:20, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
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===to fish (verb)=== | ===to fish (verb)=== | ||
{{V|vui|FH=y|JH=y|ES=y}} | {{V|vui|FH=y|JH=y|ES=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===to hover, float in midair=== | ===to hover, float in midair=== | ||
{{V|apfe|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y|ES=n}} | {{V|apfe|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y|ES=n}} | ||
*Esploranto: what is your suggestion? You can't just vote against it without voting for something else. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 18:25, 18 October 2010 (PDT) | *Esploranto: what is your suggestion? You can't just vote against it without voting for something else. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 18:25, 18 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
{{V|pavi|ES=y|JH=y|FH=y}} | {{V|pavi|ES=y|JH=y|FH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===hovercraft=== | ===hovercraft=== | ||
{{V|kunoy'apfe|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y|ES=n}} | {{V|kunoy'apfe|JH=y|FH=y|BF=y|ES=n}} | ||
{{V|kunoypavi|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y}} | {{V|kunoypavi|ES=y|JH=n|FH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===balloon, dirigible=== | ===balloon, dirigible=== | ||
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===to fly=== | ===to fly=== | ||
{{V|pavi|FH=y|JH=n}} | {{V|pavi|FH=y|JH=n|RJ=y}} | ||
===to fly (powered/guided flight, as birds, butterflies, airplanes, dirigibles)=== | ===to fly (powered/guided flight, as birds, butterflies, airplanes, dirigibles)=== | ||
{{V|temya|JH=y}} | {{V|temya|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===to fly (ballistic flight)=== | ===to fly (ballistic flight)=== | ||
{{V|meumi|JH=y}} | {{V|meumi|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===airplane, dirigible=== | ===airplane, dirigible=== | ||
{{V|kunoytemya|JH=y}} | {{V|kunoytemya|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===spaceship=== | ===spaceship=== | ||
{{V|kunoymeumi|JH=y}} | {{V|kunoymeumi|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===to want=== | ===to want=== | ||
{{V|sidu|BF=y|JH=n|FH=n}} | {{V|sidu|BF=y|JH=n|FH=n|RJ=n}} | ||
*I suggest using a desiderative mood affix like bornfor's proposed "-im" with the main verb, rather than a dedicated "want" verb. To say you want a thing rather than want to perform an action, put the "-im" suffix on an "acquire" or "possess" or "eat" or "drink" etc. verb. —JH | *I suggest using a desiderative mood affix like bornfor's proposed "-im" with the main verb, rather than a dedicated "want" verb. To say you want a thing rather than want to perform an action, put the "-im" suffix on an "acquire" or "possess" or "eat" or "drink" etc. verb. —JH | ||
**This suffix is already voted in, so I second this —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | **This suffix is already voted in, so I second this —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
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===farti=== | ===farti=== | ||
*As an equivalent of Esperanto "farti", this verb means "to be (well, ill, healthy, sick, etc.)" | *As an equivalent of Esperanto "farti", this verb means "to be (well, ill, healthy, sick, etc.)" | ||
{{V|paja|FH=y|JH=y|ES=y}} | {{V|paja|FH=y|JH=y|ES=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===duck=== | ===duck (animal)=== | ||
{{V|anka|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|anka|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
*Yes, I am aware that the swedish word for "duck" is also anka, but pronounced differently. No one complained about lol either. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | *Yes, I am aware that the swedish word for "duck" is also anka, but pronounced differently. No one complained about lol either. —[[User:Fenhl|Fenhl]] 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
===house, building, permanent structure=== | ===house, building, permanent structure=== | ||
{{V|kyba|JH=y|FH=y}} | {{V|kyba|JH=y|FH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===public, free=== | ===public, free=== | ||
*free as in "free software", not "free of charge" | *free as in "free software", not "free of charge" | ||
{{V|pimum|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|pimum|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=n}} | ||
{{V|nhu|RJ=y}} | |||
* nhu like GNU, get it? ~RJ | |||
===public transportation vehicle=== | ===public transportation vehicle=== | ||
*bus, train, subway, … | *bus, train, subway, … | ||
{{V|kunoy pimum|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|kunoy pimum|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=n}} | ||
{{V|kunoy nhu|RJ=y}} | |||
===public transportation station=== | ===public transportation station=== | ||
*train station, bus station, … | *train station, bus station, … | ||
{{V|kunoypimum|FH=n|JH=n}} | {{V|kunoypimum|FH=n|JH=n|RJ=n}} | ||
{{V|kyba kunoypimumbi|JH=y|FH=y}} | {{V|kyba kunoypimumbi|JH=y|FH=y|RJ=n}} | ||
===to sit=== | ===to sit=== | ||
{{V|Mansu|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|Mansu|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
*(just because I am voting yes on the word doesn't mean I approve of capitalizing all verbs [[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 16:51, 23 October 2010 (PDT)) | *(just because I am voting yes on the word doesn't mean I approve of capitalizing all verbs [[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 16:51, 23 October 2010 (PDT)) | ||
| Line 159: | Line 165: | ||
===yellow=== | ===yellow=== | ||
{{V|djy|FH=y|JH=n|ES=n}} | {{V|djy|FH=y|JH=n|ES=n|RJ=y}} | ||
==logic== | ==logic== | ||
===position=== | ===position=== | ||
{{V|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefix_notation prefix]|FH=y|JH=n}} | {{V|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefix_notation prefix]|FH=y|JH=n|RJ=y}} | ||
{{V|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infix_notation infix]|FH=n|JH=y}} | {{V|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infix_notation infix]|FH=n|JH=y}} | ||
{{V|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postfix_notation postfix]|FH=n|JH=n}} | {{V|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postfix_notation postfix]|FH=n|JH=n|RJ=y}} | ||
E.g., supposing that "bvi" gets voted in for "and", then for each of those possible positions we would express "red and blue" as: | E.g., supposing that "bvi" gets voted in for "and", then for each of those possible positions we would express "red and blue" as: | ||
| Line 174: | Line 180: | ||
Suffix notation seems very out of place re: Naeso's VSO and head + modifier order. Prefix notation could be interesting, but I am worried that it would be unclear when it affects something more than a pair of single words (two prepositional phrases, two clauses...). I'm voting for infix conjunctions for now, but I might change my vote if someone proposes a good way to disambiguate prefix conjunctions with phrases or clauses. --[[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 10:12, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | Suffix notation seems very out of place re: Naeso's VSO and head + modifier order. Prefix notation could be interesting, but I am worried that it would be unclear when it affects something more than a pair of single words (two prepositional phrases, two clauses...). I'm voting for infix conjunctions for now, but I might change my vote if someone proposes a good way to disambiguate prefix conjunctions with phrases or clauses. --[[User:Jim Henry|Jim Henry]] 10:12, 23 October 2010 (PDT) | ||
It probably makes no sense to vote yes for postfix but I like its Forthyness. | |||
===and=== | ===and=== | ||
{{V|bvi|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|bvi|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===and/or=== | ===and/or=== | ||
{{V|dzo|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|dzo|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
===exclusive or / unless=== | ===exclusive or / unless=== | ||
{{V|pfe|FH=y|JH=y}} | {{V|pfe|FH=y|JH=y|RJ=y}} | ||
==Suggestion list== | ==Suggestion list== | ||
Revision as of 17:28, 23 October 2010
List all unapproved words here (alphabetically when possible for ease of searching) until they're voted in. We are always voting on how to translate a given English word. Vote in the section below this, and remember to remove the word from this list once it's either voted in or voted out. Thanks!
Proposed suffixes
imperative mood
-gy — 0/0 (0/0)
additive plural
-un — **voted out**
-m — 0/0 (0/0)
-am — 0/0 (0/0)
- -am is already progressive aspect. —FH
- both are very similar to other aspects that use -m. —ES
-n/-un — 0/0 (0/0)
- -n when a word ends in vowel, -un when it ends in consonant. —ES
associative plural
- Used similarly to English "& co.", see also the description at WALS.
-lun — 0/0 (0/0)
- wouldn't this come in conflict with endings in -n? -ES
- I don't think so. —Fenhl 17:52, 22 October 2010 (PDT)
-dun — 0/0 (0/0)
same as additive plural — 0/0 (0/0)
no associative plural — 0/0 (0/0)
genitive+plural
- This is supposed to work with all plural forms: additive, collective and associative.
-sti - **voted out**
- (violates phonotactics —FH)
-tsi — 0/0 (0/0)
-bim — 0/0 (0/0)
- why not -bin or -bun? —ES
-bin — 0/0 (0/0)
-bun — 0/0 (0/0)
present tense
- (aspect? WTF. Someone please name this right, as I really don't know how it should be. - BF)
-su — 0/0 (0/0)
- (Remember that it's not yet decided whether we will suffix aspect on verbs or tense particles —FH)
- (Or something else, like using adverbs for aspect. The first phase of that vote is going on now on the Grammar page. But I don't see a reason not to propose these affixes now and show examples of their use on the Sentences page. And maybe if we end up not having inflectional aspect, always marked on every verb, we can still have some specific derivational aspect suffixes (like e.g. English or French or Esperanto's "re-" prefix; that's derivational, not inflectional like aspect in Russian or Volapük).—JH)
- TODO move this discussion to Grammar page and add a vote rubric for it
- See the Sentences page to view proposed examples of how the aspect suffixes might be used and vote on them.
question marker / interrogative mood suffix
-tu — 0/0 (0/0)
Proposed grammatical particles
it
ke — 0/0 (0/0)
- (Fenhl suggests using this only for inanimates; I think we might use the non-IRC-participant or epicene pronoun for nonhuman living beings. —JH)
- (However, we have voted on the principle "Let usage define meaning", which is why I didn't explicitely state the above. —Fenhl)
pronoun for last (most recent) line of chat
ky — 0/0 (0/0)
pronoun for last (most recent) line of chat posted by the speaker
soa — 0/0 (0/0)
temporal preposition
fyu — 0/0 (0/0)
fui — 0/0 (0/0)
- This can be used for stuff like four weeks ago or next month. How exactly these will be translated is not yet defined. —Fenhl 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT)
Interrogative pronoun
poynh — 0/0 (0/0)
- examples: ku poynh = who, pan poynh = what, fyu poynh = when Fenhl 17:09, 17 October 2010 (PDT)
- I think it would make sense to describe this as an interrogative pronoun, indifferent to IRC/sex/animacy gender, than a "question particle". I also propose that it be used after nouns to mean "which X?". Jim Henry 16:49, 18 October 2010 (PDT)
- I totally agree. —Fenhl 17:05, 18 October 2010 (PDT)
locative preposition
so — 0/0 (0/0)
- examples: so inna = there, so ua = here, so Lutetsia = in/near Paris, so Iakobo = at Jim's/where Jim is —Fenhl 11:20, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
Proposed content words
to fish (verb)
vui — 0/0 (0/0)
to hover, float in midair
apfe — 0/0 (0/0)
- Esploranto: what is your suggestion? You can't just vote against it without voting for something else. —Fenhl 18:25, 18 October 2010 (PDT)
pavi — 0/0 (0/0)
hovercraft
kunoy'apfe — 0/0 (0/0)
kunoypavi — 0/0 (0/0)
balloon, dirigible
kunoypavi — 0/0 (0/0)
to fly
pavi — 0/0 (0/0)
to fly (powered/guided flight, as birds, butterflies, airplanes, dirigibles)
temya — 0/0 (0/0)
to fly (ballistic flight)
meumi — 0/0 (0/0)
airplane, dirigible
kunoytemya — 0/0 (0/0)
spaceship
kunoymeumi — 0/0 (0/0)
to want
sidu — 0/0 (0/0)
- I suggest using a desiderative mood affix like bornfor's proposed "-im" with the main verb, rather than a dedicated "want" verb. To say you want a thing rather than want to perform an action, put the "-im" suffix on an "acquire" or "possess" or "eat" or "drink" etc. verb. —JH
- This suffix is already voted in, so I second this —Fenhl 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
farti
- As an equivalent of Esperanto "farti", this verb means "to be (well, ill, healthy, sick, etc.)"
paja — 0/0 (0/0)
duck (animal)
anka — 0/0 (0/0)
- Yes, I am aware that the swedish word for "duck" is also anka, but pronounced differently. No one complained about lol either. —Fenhl 07:04, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
house, building, permanent structure
kyba — 0/0 (0/0)
public, free
- free as in "free software", not "free of charge"
pimum — 0/0 (0/0)
nhu — 0/0 (0/0)
- nhu like GNU, get it? ~RJ
public transportation vehicle
- bus, train, subway, …
kunoy pimum — 0/0 (0/0)
kunoy nhu — 0/0 (0/0)
public transportation station
- train station, bus station, …
kunoypimum — 0/0 (0/0)
kyba kunoypimumbi — 0/0 (0/0)
to sit
Mansu — 0/0 (0/0)
- (just because I am voting yes on the word doesn't mean I approve of capitalizing all verbs Jim Henry 16:51, 23 October 2010 (PDT))
Colors
- I suggest letting "dol" cover orange and yellow as well as what we call "red" in English. —JH
- I suggest we let dol be red, and not orange/yellow. We should have six main colors, plus things like black and white. —FH
orange
nhunh — 0/0 (0/0)
- I cannot pronounce that... -RJ
- Good thing we agreed on allowing idiolects. —Fenhl 18:33, 18 October 2010 (PDT)
nunh — 0/0 (0/0)
yellow
djy — 0/0 (0/0)
logic
position
prefix — 0/0 (0/0)
infix — 0/0 (0/0)
postfix — 0/0 (0/0)
E.g., supposing that "bvi" gets voted in for "and", then for each of those possible positions we would express "red and blue" as:
- prefix: bvi dol gel
- infix: dol bvi gel
- suffix: dol gel bvi
Suffix notation seems very out of place re: Naeso's VSO and head + modifier order. Prefix notation could be interesting, but I am worried that it would be unclear when it affects something more than a pair of single words (two prepositional phrases, two clauses...). I'm voting for infix conjunctions for now, but I might change my vote if someone proposes a good way to disambiguate prefix conjunctions with phrases or clauses. --Jim Henry 10:12, 23 October 2010 (PDT)
It probably makes no sense to vote yes for postfix but I like its Forthyness.
and
bvi — 0/0 (0/0)
and/or
dzo — 0/0 (0/0)
exclusive or / unless
pfe — 0/0 (0/0)
Suggestion list
If you've grown attached to a certain word or phrase and want it included in the lex, but don't have the faintest idea about what you want it to mean, list it here. We'll consider this the 'grab bag'- other people can look here for inspiration and develop words or phrases off of the ones here, or use them in their entirety. Please do not vote below!
- bendiza
| Naeso | |
|---|---|
| General: | Voting • Member list • An Introduction to Naeso |
| Phonology and orthography: | Phonology • Stress • Orthography • Transliteration |
| Grammar: | Grammar • Suffixes • Prepositions |
| Lexicon and corpus: | Naeso-English • English-Naeso • Proposed words • Swadesh • Names • Corpus of Sentences • Math |
| Conlang relay torches: | LCC4 Relay |
| This page is part of the project Naeso. We meet up to discuss changes in 'real time' in #naeso on Freenode. | |
