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I'm looking for help with [[Kosi]]. [http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0407a&L=conlang&F=&S=&P=10683 This Conlang post] gives the four verb constructions I'm having trouble with. I'd like some ideas so Kosi can express these constructions differently from English. Thanks. --Trebor, 12:21, 3 July 2004 EST | I'm looking for help with [[Kosi]]. [http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0407a&L=conlang&F=&S=&P=10683 This Conlang post] gives the four verb constructions I'm having trouble with. I'd like some ideas so Kosi can express these constructions differently from English. Thanks. --Trebor, 12:21, 3 July 2004 EST | ||
:Well... In [[Trentish]] this construction has been used but is still undocumented (I should work on it..). These kinds of constructions use something I call a "frame verb": it is basically a verbal particle placed after the main verb. A sentence like "I believe him to be a problem" would interlinearize to "him-Topic problem-be-1p-3p ''believe''", where ''believe'' is the frame verb, and the main verb inflects to agree both with the agent of the main verb (him, 3p) and the agent of the frame verb (me, 1p). This construction also is used for other purposes, such as questions—the question frame verb ''nisya'' could be glossed as "which" or more literally as "want to know which"—or evidential particles ("know X is true", "suspect X is true", etc.). Theoretically these can stack on top of each other as well, with the medial frame verbs taking minimal verbal marking: "I suspect that you know that I believe him to be a problem" = "him-Topic problem-be-1p-3p ''believe''-2p ''know''-1p ''suspect''". —[[User:Muke|Muke Tever]] | [[User Talk:Muke|✎]] | |||
:Possibly [[mood]]s could be used for this—either an open, productive class of moods (...seems unlikely) or perhaps a small set of semantically broad ones that could be buttressed by specific words (similar to how a small set of [[counter]]s can cover all kinds of mass nouns). On the far hand you could degrammaticalize it entirely and require separate clauses: "I believe this: He is a problem", "he seems like this: he is good", "I promised him this: I will buy the cat food", "I persuaded him this: he will buy the cat food". Toki Pona does things like this, as does Anna Wierzbicka's Natural Semantic Metalanguage. —[[User:Muke|Muke Tever]] | [[User Talk:Muke|✎]] | |||
Revision as of 09:21, 3 July 2004
Form for discussing language-related questions. Also try CONLANG mailing list.
Ideas for Handling Four Specific Verb Constructions
I'm looking for help with Kosi. This Conlang post gives the four verb constructions I'm having trouble with. I'd like some ideas so Kosi can express these constructions differently from English. Thanks. --Trebor, 12:21, 3 July 2004 EST
- Well... In Trentish this construction has been used but is still undocumented (I should work on it..). These kinds of constructions use something I call a "frame verb": it is basically a verbal particle placed after the main verb. A sentence like "I believe him to be a problem" would interlinearize to "him-Topic problem-be-1p-3p believe", where believe is the frame verb, and the main verb inflects to agree both with the agent of the main verb (him, 3p) and the agent of the frame verb (me, 1p). This construction also is used for other purposes, such as questions—the question frame verb nisya could be glossed as "which" or more literally as "want to know which"—or evidential particles ("know X is true", "suspect X is true", etc.). Theoretically these can stack on top of each other as well, with the medial frame verbs taking minimal verbal marking: "I suspect that you know that I believe him to be a problem" = "him-Topic problem-be-1p-3p believe-2p know-1p suspect". —Muke Tever | ✎
- Possibly moods could be used for this—either an open, productive class of moods (...seems unlikely) or perhaps a small set of semantically broad ones that could be buttressed by specific words (similar to how a small set of counters can cover all kinds of mass nouns). On the far hand you could degrammaticalize it entirely and require separate clauses: "I believe this: He is a problem", "he seems like this: he is good", "I promised him this: I will buy the cat food", "I persuaded him this: he will buy the cat food". Toki Pona does things like this, as does Anna Wierzbicka's Natural Semantic Metalanguage. —Muke Tever | ✎
