User:Soap: Difference between revisions

From FrathWiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
(test)
 
(21 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
   
I edit frequently, but in irregular bursts.  Sometimes I make sixty edits in one day and sometimes I only make one edit in sixty days.  In the latter case it usually means I am usually occupied with some other hobby.  


==U verbs: a potential dead-end path in Poswa==
I am also [[User:Poswob Rare]].  When editing from the Soap  account, I am on a mobile device and do not have a sidebar.  Soap has become my secondary account despite being  the original.
Poswa could use verb affixes such as '''-mpibabo''' "I use my arm", and give them widely divergent semantic definitions.  For example the /mp/ comes from a word meaning thorn, which followed the semantic path
:thorn ---> pointed object ---> elbow ---> arm
And then stayed with the meaning "arm" because that was the most useful.


All U verbs use bisyllabic forms for the intransitives, and therefore trisyllabic forms for the transitives. These morphemes are '''-ibo -ube -oba''' for the ordinary verbs' ''-o -e -a''.  Thus it is not a simple infix; it is conjugated.
I have well over 100 languages in the sense that each of them has a place on the map, a list of [[languages of Teppala|sound changes]], and an ancestor somewhere along the line that has a dictionary from which I can derive words for the daughter. But the vast majority of my languages are no more than that, and I only have two that are well developed enough to write in: [[Poswa]] and [[Pabappa]].  And since Poswa originated as an improved version of Pabappa, the two languages have the same goals, and I consider myself a [[Khemehekis_Conlanger_Taxonomy#Loyalists|'''loyalist''']].


''NOTE: I came up with this idea after 4 months of not working on Poswa, however, so I may be overlooking a reason why I didnt try this before.  It may even be better to simply say that this category does not exist.  EVEN SO, the fact that these verbs use a unique set of suffixes means that they can exist alongside the ordinary verbs without coalescence, and therefore forever remain theoretical.''
My newer conlangs are named with exonyms, usually English words such as [[babakiam|Play]] and [[Gold language|Gold]].  Major projects get short names such as these, and these names usually have some specific meaning related to the culture of the speakers.  For example, the Players founded their nation on the basis of the abolition of child labor.  Minor projects get names that have no relation to the culture whatsoever, but typically follow some pattern that I can recognize, such as being named after different verses in a song.


'''THESE VERBS LACK PASSIVE FORMS.'''
Many of my languages would be starkly out of place on Earth, as Teppalan languages that evolve unusual characteristics often keep evolving in that direction rather than returning to "normal".  I think of it by analogy to the evolution of species, where, for example, animals who evolve a specialized trait will commonly become even more specialized over time rather than returning to the same generic animal body plan.


These are called U-stem verbs or U verbs because in [[babakiam|Play]] the stems typically ended with /u/ or /ū/. They are bipersonal verbs, but both person markers must be the same. Thus, forms like ''*-ubo -obe -iba'' do not occur even though diachronically they would be just as legitimate as the forms that do occur.<ref>Though this leaves open the question of how one would express the literal meaning corrsponding to "i used your key"m, etc. Perhaps they would simply need to be expressed with individual words.</ref> 
[[Poswa]] is my favorite language, and overall the one I think I've done the best on, but [[Pabappa]] is more accessible for readers, so I still maintain and use Pabappa.  


If they exist, they would be theoretically an open class, since the derivation of each U affix from a given content word is formulaic and cannot produce an ungrammatical form.  However, many forms would collide, and it is likely that only a small number of such forms would be used outside of poetry and perhaps some specialized fields.  (For example, the same morpheme that for humans could mean "by arm" could for some animals mean "by claw" since the original morpheme is in fact a word for thorn.) 
==Links of convenience==
 
*[[:category:Language families of Teppala]]
Most U morphemes would be short ones, such as '''-š-''' "by key", which could take either a literal use (e.g. opening a door) or a metaphorical one (performing an action that others cannot do).  A possible polysemic affix would be '''-p-''', which could mean "by finger/hand", "by water", "by womb", "by eye", and up to 32 other lesser used meanings (that is, anything whose C-stem is a bare /p/). Even more /p/ would occur when other stems such as /š/ occur after a stem ending in a labial consonant.
*[http://www.frathwiki.com/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=scratchpad&fulltext=Search scratchpads]
 
*[[User:Soap/scratchpad]] unorganized scratchpad
Some further potential examples, with generous translations:
*[[User:Soap/samples]] little used
 
*[[Special:Contributions/Poswob_Rare]]
====INTRANSITIVES====
*[[Special:Contributions/Soap]]
:'''Tampišibi.'''
::I drank wine (because I can).
 
:'''Lappotavibi.'''
::I fell down. (By accident; this derives from ''tane'' "rump, tail" and thus means literally "i fell down with my bottom")
 
:'''Tipopožibi.'''
::I traveled by animal. (/re/ "animal for riding" ---> /rož/ > /ož/)  If this verb came into common use it could ''theoretically'' contract to /tipʷp-/ through regular syncope,  but note that there are no other examples<sup>that i can remember</sup> of this contraction in the language.
::If the affix "by animal" gets grammaticalized, it could shift its meaning widely as have the others, and come to mean "with help". Though again, note that there is already a convenient way of expressing this in Poswa without using a U-verb: the D-stem affix _____ (not at home now so cant list it)
 
These are all etymologically repetitious, and could be replaced by "normal" forms with the shorter verb suffix, since the U form occupies one extra syllable while adding no new meaning. Thus the entire category of U verbs survives through idiomatic use only.
 
===Other potential  U verbs===
Most of these use zero-syllable U morphemes, and therefore appear as though they were ordinary atomic word roots.  Even with a one-syllable U morpheme, though, this could be achieved if the preceding root were also one syllable or was of a type that offers syncope when compounded.
 
#'''Ø-p-U''' to give birth (A zero stem verb. Only if prioritizing the meaning "womb" over other body parts such as the eyes, hands, etc is valid; note that there already exists an ordinary verb /v-/ "to see", so the primary competitor at least for human agents is the "hand" meaning.)
#:The two meanings could nonetheless coexist side by side since there would be very little opportunity for confusion in a running conversation: people rarely give birth to objects that they also hold in their hands, unless they are doing both together.
#'''pa-p-U''' or '''pap-p-U''' to menstruate (same as "give birth" but with "blood" as the stem; note that many words for menstruation already exist such as /paepi-/)
#:As /papp-/ means "to predict rain", this could be a rare example of a double entendre.
#'''pwum-p-U''' to teach (contraction of /pušum-ba-š-U/)
#:On the surface, this looks like it could be reanalyzed as either "using the baby in one's womb" or "using one's military alliance", both of which have C-stems of /pwump-/.
#'''la-p-U''' to teach (contraction of /labi-š-U/)
#:Some Moonshine speakers would analyze the /p/ here as certainly meaning "womb" and then say that these are feminine verbs that prove that only women should be allowed to teach.
#'''sae-p-U''' to masturbate (/sala-p-U/; here, /p/ really does mean hand instead of womb)
#'''pipu-p-U''' or '''pipʷ-p-U''' to masturbate (same as above but uses /pipi/ "sun; to be happy")


==Unbalanced gender setups==
==Unbalanced gender setups==
 
This is a hobby of mine and is one of the few language traits that is not reflected in Poswa or Pabappa. 
       
#1 man + 999 women = 1000 men ([[Proto-Indo-European|IE]])
#1 man + 999 women = 1000 men ([[Proto-Indo-European|IE]])
#*pregnant women addressed with male pronouns if baby is known to be a boy.
#*pregnant women addressed with male pronouns if baby is known to be a boy.
#**Pregnant women addressed in the plural, which is epicene. (some [[Languages of Teppala]])
#**Pregnant women addressed in the plural, which is epicene. (some [[Languages of Teppala]]; possibly [[Icecap Moonshine]] at least in verbs)
#Genders take different positions on an animacy hierarchy.  (Many [[Languages of Teppala]] if babies are considered a separate gender)
#Genders take different positions on an animacy hierarchy.  (Many [[Languages of Teppala]] if babies are considered a separate gender)
#*nom-acc for males, erg-abs for females (some conlangs; proposed for pre-PIE plural feminine)
#*nom-acc for males, erg-abs for females (some conlangs; proposed for pre-PIE plural feminine)
#*Accusative case of males is the same as the nominative case of females, though this is a superficial resemblance only; they behave as normal nominatives and accusatives. ([[Late Andanese]])   
#*Accusative case of males is the same as the nominative case of females, though this is a superficial resemblance only; they behave as normal nominatives and accusatives. ([[Late Andanese]])   
#Males cannot be the agent of certain verbs without a morpheme showing which woman gave them persmission to do so; or the opposite.  (Resembles [[Poswa]] and [[Pabappa]] 's treatment of sentient animals)
#Males cannot be the agent of certain verbs without a morpheme showing which woman gave them persmission to do so; or the opposite.  ([[Icecap Moonshine language|Icecap Moonshine]]; resembles [[Poswa]] and [[Pabappa]] 's treatment of sentient animals)
#Genders behave differently with respect to some other grammatical function.  (Many [[Languages of Teppala]])
#Genders behave differently with respect to some other grammatical function.  (Many [[Languages of Teppala]])
#*Many semantically inanimate objects (umbrella, purse, dishes)  are assigned to either the masculine or feminine gender, with a great imbalance in who gets what; men and women need extra morphemes to possess objects not of the "proper" gender, even if these are very common. ([[Moonshine]])
#*Many semantically inanimate objects (umbrella, purse, dishes)  are assigned to either the masculine or feminine gender, with a great imbalance in who gets what; men and women need extra morphemes to possess objects not of the "proper" gender, even if these are very common. ([[Moonshine]])
Line 63: Line 36:
#masculine has to be indicated with a suffix; unmarked form is usually feminine ([[Láadan]]; ''with'' is defined both as "woman" and "human", rather like the inverse of English ''man'')
#masculine has to be indicated with a suffix; unmarked form is usually feminine ([[Láadan]]; ''with'' is defined both as "woman" and "human", rather like the inverse of English ''man'')
#*Feminine has to be indicated with a suffix; unmarked form is usually masculine unless the descriptor is syntactically associated with females , as with nursing, menial labor, etc (IE)
#*Feminine has to be indicated with a suffix; unmarked form is usually masculine unless the descriptor is syntactically associated with females , as with nursing, menial labor, etc (IE)
#When a masculine agent is the owner of some object, the third person is used for that object, but when a female possessor is found, her person (and gender) is used.


==Notes==
==Notes==

Latest revision as of 06:47, 17 February 2023

I edit frequently, but in irregular bursts. Sometimes I make sixty edits in one day and sometimes I only make one edit in sixty days. In the latter case it usually means I am usually occupied with some other hobby.

I am also User:Poswob Rare. When editing from the Soap account, I am on a mobile device and do not have a sidebar. Soap has become my secondary account despite being the original.

I have well over 100 languages in the sense that each of them has a place on the map, a list of sound changes, and an ancestor somewhere along the line that has a dictionary from which I can derive words for the daughter. But the vast majority of my languages are no more than that, and I only have two that are well developed enough to write in: Poswa and Pabappa. And since Poswa originated as an improved version of Pabappa, the two languages have the same goals, and I consider myself a loyalist.

My newer conlangs are named with exonyms, usually English words such as Play and Gold. Major projects get short names such as these, and these names usually have some specific meaning related to the culture of the speakers. For example, the Players founded their nation on the basis of the abolition of child labor. Minor projects get names that have no relation to the culture whatsoever, but typically follow some pattern that I can recognize, such as being named after different verses in a song.

Many of my languages would be starkly out of place on Earth, as Teppalan languages that evolve unusual characteristics often keep evolving in that direction rather than returning to "normal". I think of it by analogy to the evolution of species, where, for example, animals who evolve a specialized trait will commonly become even more specialized over time rather than returning to the same generic animal body plan.

Poswa is my favorite language, and overall the one I think I've done the best on, but Pabappa is more accessible for readers, so I still maintain and use Pabappa.

Links of convenience

Unbalanced gender setups

This is a hobby of mine and is one of the few language traits that is not reflected in Poswa or Pabappa.

  1. 1 man + 999 women = 1000 men (IE)
    • pregnant women addressed with male pronouns if baby is known to be a boy.
  2. Genders take different positions on an animacy hierarchy. (Many Languages of Teppala if babies are considered a separate gender)
    • nom-acc for males, erg-abs for females (some conlangs; proposed for pre-PIE plural feminine)
    • Accusative case of males is the same as the nominative case of females, though this is a superficial resemblance only; they behave as normal nominatives and accusatives. (Late Andanese)
  3. Males cannot be the agent of certain verbs without a morpheme showing which woman gave them persmission to do so; or the opposite. (Icecap Moonshine; resembles Poswa and Pabappa 's treatment of sentient animals)
  4. Genders behave differently with respect to some other grammatical function. (Many Languages of Teppala)
    • Many semantically inanimate objects (umbrella, purse, dishes) are assigned to either the masculine or feminine gender, with a great imbalance in who gets what; men and women need extra morphemes to possess objects not of the "proper" gender, even if these are very common. (Moonshine)
    • certain verbs automatically take on a more violent of forceful meaning if subject is male, unless an extra morpheme is added. (Late Andanese)
  5. Deities are always grammatically masculine, even if female in form (claimed for Tamil, apparently false)
  6. male gender associated with broken objects or unpleasant things. (Jmo; some English feminists sarcastic use of male- as a variant form of mal-)
  7. masculine has to be indicated with a suffix; unmarked form is usually feminine (Láadan; with is defined both as "woman" and "human", rather like the inverse of English man)
    • Feminine has to be indicated with a suffix; unmarked form is usually masculine unless the descriptor is syntactically associated with females , as with nursing, menial labor, etc (IE)
  8. When a masculine agent is the owner of some object, the third person is used for that object, but when a female possessor is found, her person (and gender) is used.

Notes

Retrieved from "http://www.frathwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Soap&oldid=154613"